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My mother is almost 95 and lives alone since my father died six years ago. I have been overseeing her home and have people coming in to clean and shop and prepare her meals and keep her company.



The back story is that six years ago, he was convicted of a felony for stealing from her. He was under probation and no contact was allowed. She bitterly disliked him and wanted nothing to do with him. Now, she is getting dementia, and can't remember that he stole from her. And he has gradually started coming to visit her. She wants the visits, because she is "so lonely". (but actually she has people there five days a week, at least). I don't think she can even remember visits. She is very needy.



He is telling her I am going to "institutionalize" her, and throw her in a nursing home. And telling her I harass him every time he comes to visit. Which isn't true because I literally have had no contact in the past 6 years.



I am finding out what he is saying from my aunt. My mother is keeping this recent stuff a secret from me.



I would like any input on how to get this to stop. It isn't productive, and truth be told, she will need to go to assisted living in the not too distant future, because of dementia, physical issues, and just not being able to live on her own. BTW, I do have financial power of attorney. My other two siblings are out of state and not really involved.

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hoolyk, just curious how your Aunt [Mother's sister?] knows what the grandson is saying? Is she there when the grandson visits? Or is this something your Mother is telling her?

I am wondering if the grandson is even saying such things, or if your Mother is starting to develop dementia, where one side effect is telling tall tales.

I would ask the caregivers if they see any signs of dementia. I know whenever I had visited my Dad at his home, he was very sharp. It was his caregivers that was telling me that my Dad's memory was slipping.
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hoolyk May 2022
My Mother talked to my Aunt every single morning as my Aunt calls her. So it is true. and another caretaker that visits listens in when he is there, and hears what he says.
Everyone sees signs of dementia. Her short term memory is gone, and she repeats the same thing over and over again. She can carry on a conversation, and can get up and shower, and cook her breakfast, etc. And play bridge, cause she has always done it.
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I would get a restraining order for no contact.

She may not remember but, his record is proof for the law.

Your POA should give you the legal authority to do this, as in her right mind she wanted no contact with this person.
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hoolyk May 2022
Thank you. I am thinking about visiting an attorney to get this done. Or at least have them send him a letter, warning him to stop interfering, or this will happen. So, the only reason I would take this approach is she will go crazy if I "interfere" in her life and stop him from visiting. I had her license taken away, and she has been bashing me for a year to everyone. This caretaking thing is a thankless job!!!

I have a durable power of attorney. Which indicates I am supposed to do her wishes, (I believe???)
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If he was convicted of a felony, you can renew a restraining order, and should do at least that.

Otherwise, do not wait any longer. From what you have described, the time is now for your Mother to move to assisted living, make her life more comfortable and secure. He can be banned from the facility.

Those of us who have seen this, experienced it will be able to give you all the signs they missed, and how they waited just a bit too long to take action on behalf of their loved one. It was more complicated after the damage had been done.
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hoolyk May 2022
Thanks. I agree with all you say.
I took her to visit assisted living places two different times, have had her doctor talk to her about it. Again, she bashed me for a year, saying I was trying to throw her in a nursing home.
She did say when she turned 95 (which is in 4 months), she would leave her house. Cause that's when her mother did. But I think she will again absolutely refuse. People talk to her, but no one can get her to agree. And every conversation where you get some rational agreement is forgotten. She always says "I am doing really good for my age". I make sure someone is there to check in for 2 to 4 hours 5 to 6 days a week. And all she does is complain that she is there by herself and no company. She also goes out to play bridge two to 3 times a week. But nothing is enough when it comes to her having company. She wants the world to revolve around her
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Some of us here are not above giving "forced choices".

"Mom, you are no longer safe at home. Pick one of these ALs to move to on July 1 or I'm done and will resign my POA. You can manage your own affairs and let yourself end up robbed blind by your grandson and in the county nursing home as a ward of the state. Or you can go to one of these nice ALs and have all your needs taken care of."

I don't provide care for folks who abuse or bad mouth me.
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hoolyk May 2022
Thanks Barb. My father died in 2014, and I have been taking care of everything so she could stay in her home as she wanted. She had said "when I stop driving, I will go to assisted living". Well, that happened in the past year, and she refuses. Then since she was 90, she said "my mother stayed in her house till she was 95. When I am 95, then I will move out of my house". That is coming up in August of this year. The she will again refuse. Everyone other member of the family thinks she should move into a nice place, which she can easily afford.

I am going to print out your speech. This whole situation is getting so old and tiresome!!
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I think you should “throw her in a nursing home” (THE MOST ridiculous statement that can possibly exit the mouth of a manipulative and despicable worm of a relative- ), but seriously, YOU are POA and you have a certain duty to protect her.

Also, in a good residential environment she can make real friends, AND be appropriately cared for. DOUBLE WIN.
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"He was under probation and no contact was allowed."

Not sure how this all works but I may contact Probation and see if the restraining order can be renewed like said.

As her POA it is part of your responsibility to protect her. Like said, its not how she feels about him now Dementia has set it but how she felt about him before. If he is detrimental to her wellbeing, you can ban him from the house. Good that you have her finances so he can't get to them because be assured that is why he is there.

I have a special needs nephew who was taken advantage of by an older woman. She had him thinking because they were BF and GF that his money was hers. She had him thinking they would marry. I had it out with her one day. He had 50k in a special needs account. I am sure he told her he had 50k but not that it was in an irrevokable trust. I mentioned that it was in a trust that he could not touch because I was the trustee. She backed off from that point on. Little by little. TG she eventually moved far away. He was young and had been sheltered. I think he learned from the experience.

What I am trying to say is when people realize they are not going to get anything they back off. Maybe that's what you need to make dear nephew aware of, that you are in charge. That your POA gave you the ability to take over Moms finances and because he previously stole from grandmom, that you have made her finances very secure. That because she has been declared incompetent (if you haven't gotten a formal diagnosis you should but don't tell him that) she is not capable of changing her Will. How ever it is written at this point is how it stands. She can no longer sign a contract of any kind.

Good that Mom has Caregivers you can trust. He wants something and if he is ever alone with her he may try and get it. So if you don't have in writing that because Mom has a Dementia she can no longer make informed decisions, I would get it. He could have her co-sign for a loan. With that pc of paper you can prove she was not competent tocsign.
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hoolyk May 2022
Thank you. Very good advice. I will contact her doctors office.

Her current will states specifically that he has already been provided for, and he gets nothing.
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If you are POA you need to do a stay away order. You should see an elder law attorney. You will need the papers of diagnosis and the facts of your Son's inc
arceration for stealing from his grandmother. This will be easily done and needs to be done. Your Mother is prey for him, and you already know this.
If you are not POA you need immediate temporary guardianship. Take the same papers to the same elder law attorney and get the stay away orders put in place.
Your mother is in grave danger and you need to act IMMEDIATELY before all of her money is removed from her. Your Mom, if she has dementia should not be alone at any time and she should not be in control of her finances.
I would call APS in the a.m. on Monday and get this ball rolling fast. Tell them the circumstances you told us and ask for advice about Stay Away orders from the court, POA, Guardianship, or whatever information you need.
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hoolyk May 2022
Thank you. I will take your advice and move forward with this. I am DPOA.
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He was under probation and no contact was allowed.

He is now visiting and subjecting her to undue influence, possibly for financial gain, certainly undermining her mental and emotional wellbeing.

TURF to APS. They can be quite fierce when they put their minds to it and have something (like a condition of probation) to get their teeth into. Was there any time limit put on that, by the way?

And what's your aunt got to do with it? Is she sanctioning the visits, there when he is, hearing about this from your mother, or what?
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hoolyk May 2022
I think they vacated all the orders after two years when his probation ended. He began to stop by on rare occasions. She kept it secret from me.
I manage all her finances, and she has a considerable amount of money. So I have made sure it is safely invested and can't be accessed.

My aunt is very worried about her contact with him, and tells her she shouldn't be having him over. My mother and her chat every morning, so just as of the last month, I have started hearing that he is telling her "lies" about me. And then saying about I was going to "throw her into a home".
He texted me directly about that!!! He went over to her house and got her all upset about that. Again, my aunt Carol told me, or I wouldn't have known.

His other caretakers have been there, and have heard him say stuff about finding buyers for her house (he is in real estate).

Bottom Line: he is getting emboldened.
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You don't mention it but here's a thought if your mother is still writing checks. I assume you are looking at your mother's accounts at least monthly. If you find that she is writing him checks and she refuses to give up her checkbook, you can talk to the bank about requiring dual signatures, yours as her POA agent and hers. Do not become a joint owner on any accounts, though. Talk to the bank. Some don't provide the dual-signature service anymore. Or you could just cut off her access to her accounts if you have a durable financial power of attorney.
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hoolyk May 2022
I took her checkbook. She was writing large checks to the church, and every time they came, wrote another really large check! Because she can't remember. She is upset that I took her checkbook. But I put a stop to that.

I have been joint on her account for 8 years. And I pay every bill and keep track of all her money, in the brokerage account and at the bank account.

I keep a limited amount of money at the bank to keep it safe.
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Just one point, about the difference between a restraining order and ‘getting the probation condition extended’. You need the restraining order. No-one stays ‘on probation’ forever, and that option is likely to be a blind alley and waste of time. Go for APS and the restraining order.

It may be pointless, but you might rub in to your mother that she (like you) has been living by a lot of other people’s rules since she was a child, and still is. It’s totally untrue that “no one is ever going to tell her what to do".
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reallyfedup May 2022
Hoolyk should look into what is involved with a restraining order in her mother's jurisdiction. Even civil restraining orders can be complicated and involve going to court. Enforcement probably is going to be through law enforcement. Some police departments are better than others when it comes to enforcement.
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?!?!?

Do the real estate licensing people know about his conviction for theft? From his *grandmother*, yet? I know the profession isn't the most highly esteemed of all for its ethics, but this almost sounds like satire.
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hoolyk May 2022
I honestly don't know the answer. I actually looked for the court records, and now I can't find it! I am wondering if he had it expudged???
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He is grooming her for financial abuse.

Like a predatory python, slithering in to encircle her house.

Throw the full weight of the law against him asap. Whatever type of restraining order is available.

Seen it before. Once they find the money is held tight, they slide off to find new prey.

If needed, move Mother into care for 'respite' for safety until this danger passes. Kind of cruel to be kind.. since you arrange all her services, a break may be needed by all of them all together & since Mother cannot live alone - respite care it is. See if any of the ALs you liked could take her shortish term - 2 weeks or 2 months, for respite or even a trial.
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hoolyk May 2022
My mother won't "move" she told me today she is never going into assisted living. She said she will hired full time help and stay in her home till she is 100 or 105.
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Are you her Power of Attorney? If YES, you can block him.
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Lymie61 May 2022
I think technically that’s only true if she has DPOA in affect because her mother has been deemed unable to make decisions for herself.
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Have a attorney write up a no contract order, due to what he did last time and the fact she has dementia. This is a form of elder abuse .
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Hoolyk,

You stated, "he was convicted of a felony for stealing from her. He was under probation and no contact was allowed."

Is the condition of no contact still in place, and if not, why?

Did Adult Protective Services (APS) place the grandson on the registry for people that have been investigated and/or guilty for ABUSE, NEGLECT, or EXPLOITATION? There is an APS registry in most states. In this particular case, it was financial exploitation and you should reach out to APS to make sure they have him on the registry. This is important because he may be emboldened to try the exploitation again with another vulnerable person, and the registry is one more transparency tool to help families do their due diligence before allowing someone in their home as a companion or caregiver.


A protective order (a.k.a. no contact order) can be granted by a court with the info you have, but again make sure he is on the APS registry.

It appears that you have a strained relationship with most of the family. Why do you think your siblings are silent, or do they share their opinions on this whole matter with you?
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Impossible May 2022
I don't think a protective order will help while she's in her own home. Since she has dementia she might not be aware of the danger she's in and will still allow him into her home. I say this because my mother has dementia and can't remember anything even if it was 5 minutes ago. This lady needs to be in a facility. The staff could ensure the protective order is enforced and prevent grandson from getting near her.
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People tried to blackmail a relative of mine by revealing some behavior of his. Amazingly, he went to a lawyer, who had a little chat with the blackmailers explaining the law and what would happen to them if they continued. It stopped immediately. I wonder if a lawyer familiar with the situation (which you describe as legally safe for her from his abuse)might explain this to the grandson. I agree that if there is no gain for him, he will fade away, or even poof away.
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People tried to blackmail a relative of mine by revealing some behavior of his. Amazingly, he went to a lawyer, who had a little chat with the blackmailers explaining the law and what would happen to them if they continued. It stopped immediately. I wonder if a lawyer familiar with the situation (which you describe as legally safe for her from his abuse) might explain these legalities to the grandson. I agree that if there is no gain for him, he will fade away, or even poof away.
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Get mom to give you health directive POA.
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You should also have a personal Power of Attorney. I would look into getting her placed in a retirement/nursing home as soon as possible. While she's in her home you can't stop grandson from visiting. With her dementia she's at risk of all kinds of manipulation. If she was in a home you can get a restraining order so grandson can't get near her. With dementia she's probably not aware of how dangerous her grandson is. Good luck to you and your mom.
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reallyfedup May 2022
Hoolyk says she has financial POA but not medical. There are varying stages of competency when a person has dementia. An elder law attorney should be able to determine whether or not her mother is competent to assign durable medical POA. However, if her dementia has progressed too far, the next step may be going to court for a guardianship. As always, everyone should remember that state statutes can differ.
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Get her out now! Sorry my Mum was sliding into Dementia. A “friend” started coming round more and now often. A former real estate guy but it never worked out for him (he was always down on his luck) I knew something was up but being busy raining children and working, only got very concerned when she asked him how much her car was worth and told me his son sold things on Kijiji (she had been asking me the worth of her car the previous few years but not actually selling it) At the same time she told me of this wonderful opportunity he had to buy a business for $ 3000 which he was asking for a loan. I told her the banks would loan him the money so she didn’t have to. Next day she tells me she loaned it to him. When I ask why, it’s “because she couldn’t remember what I told her.” I called my eldest son and asked him to buy her car so Mr fast talker can’t get that, then I take her to my house so he can’t get her to sell her house to him, call my brother and we got to run her life from then on because she couldn’t. She went into independent living for a short time until my brother agreed with me that she did in fact have dementia.
Your Mother has already been shysted by this grandson, she has dementia, his visits are causing her grief, end his contact with her. He is the one causing her to go to a home!
Mum wanted to stay in her home but he knew where she lived thus she had to move. Unfortunately it’s the same with your Mum.
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Is this grandson your son? Your brother or sister's son? If their son, what is their response? They seem to not want to get involved. If you don't live local to your Mother, you're going to have to arrange more frequent visits to her yourself.

Get in touch with an elder law attorney NOW. Do not wait. You say her grandson is "in real estate" and he's "started calling someone to do something at the house." You also stated, "Her other caretakers have been there, and have heard him say stuff about finding buyers for her house (he is in real estate).

Bottom Line: he is getting emboldened."

Yes, he IS getting emboldened and it's escalating." If he knows what he's doing, he could be looking to file a quick claim deed and sell your mother's house right from under her. She sounds as if she can "show time" really well in front of others (sounding competent and convincing) and there's no reason not to assume grandson could take her to a lawyer and convince her sign a new DPOA or any other legal document (including a new will). She sounds lonely and, of course, welcomes grandson's attention (even if it riles her up with him telling her lies).

GET TO A QUALIFIED ELDER LAW ATTY NOW! Tell him what is happening. You have no idea what he us capable of if he has financially abused her in the past.

Bottom line is you're going to have to get WAY more hands on than managing from afar in this situation. If your Mom is 95, I'm assuming you are retired? Bite the bullet and make an extended visit to her house. Get her siblings involved (your Aunt/Uncles) and have an "intervention" with her. Let them see for themselves how she is living and what you have done to keep her safe. It also sounds like your siblings are leaving everything up to you as they don't want to be involved.

It sounds like she has dementia-like symptoms and is not capable of understanding the consequences of her actions. That alone would be reason enough that she cannot continue to live at her home alone and at the mercy of predatory people. Whether she likes it or not, she's depending on YOU (as DPOA) to act in her best interests. Be the bad guy. So what? Do what you have to do without guilt. Trust me. I've had to do it.

This grandson needs a "wake up call" to back off through an attorney's letter, an order of protection from a judge, and/or a visit from local law enforcement. Plus you "texting" him is pointless. You need a face to face with this guy and bring someone along as a "witness" to what is said. Perhaps when he's "visiting" Grandma.

He's up to something and he's turning your Mother w/dementia against you. As I said, it's not safe she lives alone. She needs to be moved for her safety. It is what it is.
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hoolyk May 2022
Thank you Good advice. It is really me alone handling everything, my son helps out. I am 69, so semi retired, but own/manage 20 rental properties, and watch my 3 year old grandson a few days a week.
I am concerned about her refusal to ever leave her home. Obviously she has too. She can barely get up ( I just bought a nice lift chair for her, which she wouldn't agree too!!!!) Now, she loves it!
I have some new ideas on how to take care of stuff, with all the great responses from the forum.
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I'm in a situation with a relative that continues to want to move in with my mother. This will happen right after they step over my dead body. My mother does not know the extent of the involvement but in short they are gray area stalking me. I have met with lawyers and the cops. Until a credible threat is made, I can not get a restraining order. The grandson has a criminal record and him showing up could be considered a credible threat. Talk to a lawyer and the police ASAP. Once a threat has been made a restraining order is easy to get.
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Ask if you can get a restraining order against him. List the reasons and see if they fly.
The #1 abuser of the elderly is a male relative, on probation, and with drug issues.
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I would get some monitors/cameras in the house and record what he is saying to your mother. If what you’re hearing is true, this is documentation of elder abuse. The court should give a restraining order based on your documentation.

More importantly, your mother is showing signs of being unable to live alone any longer; in fact, she shouldn’t be alone at all anymore. Along with the memory and functional loss of dementia, come other losses, including smell and taste. It is not unheard of for people with dementia to drink liquids such as household cleaners, because they cannot taste them. It is not uncommon for people with dementia to not smell things like a burning pot on the stove, which can cause a house fire. You said your mother‘s 95th is coming up shortly, so using her own words, plan on moving her as a birthday present to a wonderful new life. You will have to upsell the social aspect of assisted living. There is plenty of medical documentation showing how seniors thrive better in a community environment of assisted living than they do living alone in their homes. Personally go check out the assisted-living residences in your area, including the surrounding towns, and find the three best to show to your mother. Tell her you think she will be much happier living with a community of people and can play lots of bridge. Tell her her friends will be able to visit her at her new place and she will be able to go to the bridge parties with them . Also, tell her it is for her own safety. Accept that she will be angry with you, but it is your duty as her POA to keep her safe.

You can find information on how to select the appropriate home from the Alzheimer’s Association and from your local area Agency on Aging.
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If she forgot the past, then understandably she wants to see her grandson. Mom isn't really keeping secrets from you if she has lost enough of her memory to forget the grandson stole from her. Not keeping secrets - she's not even aware there is a problem if she has memory issues.. Or perhaps you speak negatively about the grandson to her and she remembers just enough about how you feel to avoid the discussion.

I am assuming that this child belongs to one of your out of state siblings. That parent may or may not help you with the situation.

No contact with grandson in past 6 years indicates you haven't tried to talk to him. Perhaps meet with him and explain his grandmother's situation: dementia and physical issues that are going to create dangers for her living alone. Eventually she will have to go to facility for her own safety.
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hoolyk May 2022
My sister died of cancer at 50, He is her only son. Always with my parents, then raised by him from that point in time.
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CALL HIS PROBATION OFFICER! If he is still under probation, he’s in huge trouble. If he’s not under probation, the officer still won’t want him there. He has the power to make sure he’s never there again. Do it asap.
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some of this is a little repetitive, but first see estate /elder careattorney. if no POA for finances and health care. also talk re how -if possible - to keep grandson out.
2. talk with your siblings about what is going on [are grandson's parents/siblings around] to determine how to proceed.
3. look at mother's resources - money, titles, etc so you know what you have to deal with
4. talk with mother's doctors [need her permission or POA

I would not talk with grandson- at least not by yourself
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reallyfedup May 2022
I would add checking any beneficiary accounts she may have.
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Adult protective services needs to visit and get a "stay-away" restraining order: check with an Elder Law Attorney for specifics. Maybe that judge would like to be informed about RECIDIVISM.
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Make sure all legal and financial documents are out of Mom's house. This grandson is a creep and will not be above forging granny's name on papers if he will make a bunch of money, because he thinks she will stop you from going after him legally. If there is nothing to be gained he will buzz off eventually.

Another scam he might try is to get her to sign a new will or POA, written by and attorney he knows. Her dementia needs to be medically documented. If it hasn't been, get her PCP to do a MoCA or similar screening and record that. If the PCP can't Mom needs a geriatric specialist who can address this.

When the grandson gets her riled up try saying, "Mom, you know he is just teasing you." Blow it off. Don't feed into her distress. If he is the one who upsets her and you make her feel calm and secure you will more easily maintain control.

Document her reactions after he visits. Try to establish a pattern of his getting her agitated. See if her aids can take her BP and show it is elevated after his visits. If she isn't eating or has accidents after he is there these are also signs of physical distress. This can all be used by APS to restrict his contact.
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I have spoke with attorney and prosecutors office. He had his felony either sealed or expunged. So the prosecutor told me it is as if it never happened. No record of it. (I do have print outs from newpaper where he admitted guilt and was convicted). The prosecutor office advised guardianship. Protective services would go and talk to her, and she would get angry and say there is no problem. So that wouldn't work.
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Sarah3 May 2022
This story somehow seems a bit off is my first impression, It is not uncommon for the person who has poa to be in the position for a financial advantage. Efforts by the person w poa to discourage the senior from certain relatives and friends and speaking poorly of them to others can be a red flag that the poa has alterior motives. I can’t say obviously if this is the case here, rather bringing awareness of a different perspective to be aware of
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