Grateful1too Asked March 2023
How do I stop mom’s politically incorrect mouth?
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Mom lives with myself & 2 young adult kids, my home. She has never really made life decisions I can respect, but she speaks definitively as though her opinions carry great weight.
My kids are polite and just take her misogynistic, judgy ways, but I don’t want this for them -they’re shriveling a bit.
Fundamentally, I feel there’s nothing I can say because Ma firmly believes she is perfect.
We need some boundaries.
How to live with this? Is it possible..?
Thank you.
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Because at that age, the lesson to be learned is that one has to coexist with people whose political values differ. Rather than absorb this, I saw anecdotes every day from young people about how they’re refusing to go to Thanksgiving if there was a Trump supporter/pro lifer etc. at the table. I am neither of these things but I learned back then, and absolutely had to, that politics is just their view of the world, they have the exact same vote.
She had bipolar mental illness and was rude to everyone, including me.
So maybe tell Mom gently( or not so gently): to stop that, it is harmful, on the other hand maybe redirect kids to completely different views of becoming totally confident female or respectful male.
If your mother thinks she's perfect, let her be. Doesn't mean everyone else has to think so. You certainly don't, do you?
You don't have to live this way if you're willing to change. Be aware, your polite adult children will eventually go out in the world where they'll need to work with people of different views and experiences: rude and polite.
Do you have a plan for change?
Let me just say I can see how much you love and want to protect your children from anything that deviates from that within your home and rightly so- children who are raised with conflicting beliefs causes a sense of insecurity and confusion, it’s not emotionally healthy. With that in mind if grandma is not willing to respect those boundaries your children are the top priority and at that point t would have her find other options to live. I know you mentioned this isn’t due to dementia it’s been a life long thing, she sounds primarily interested in having what she wants without regard to others feelings or needs.
I wish you the best for you and your kids sake
I did read that you had her examined and she has her faculties. From that I would assume she's always had these beliefs and you must have known about them before you moved her in.
Offensive terms, words and issues are changing on the daily. Examples of her speech might be helpful here. I don't agree with "shut up or get out" advice or threatening her with a nursing home if she doesn't change her opinions. It would be different if she was visiting. You moved her in, she's a grown woman who doesn't have a mental illness. If your home is her home she should be able to express her thoughts and feelings too, not walk on eggshells.
Is it possible the mistake was yours for having her move in instead of placing her in a new facility where you wouldn't be offended by her conversation?
You also mentioned province. Canada? Some of us Americans may not agree with all Canadian ideas on speech restriction an pc culture. But I don't believe the news will change anyone's belief system that was set most likely when she was younger.
Again, I haven't read what she said that was so offensive...so my two cents are worth only that.
Prayers
And, I've just spent 20 minutes going through comments and did not even read all of them. I see the views about unwarrented comments including politics. Your mother needs to stop or she will move out Now. Your mother needs to be moved out into a facility, not only for your sanity, but for your kids. Anger and rudeness can rub off to the kids and make them bullies in the society, repeating the cycle that skips a generation.
Add to the mix that what you consider politically incorrect, someone else outside your family may say that "they are just telling it like it is".
You have a duty to protect your children, yet provide them with enough experience so that they become socially acceptable adults in whatever society they choose to live in.
If your Mom truly does not want to change her ways, maybe you can find your Mom senior or subsidized housing so that she doesn't have day-to-day influence on your children.
Good luck.
Not too many women are misogynistic, that is put down women just for being women. Is this really what you mean? What are her “judgy ways” about? Politics? Race? Clothing and appearance? “She speaks definitively as though her opinions carry great weight”. What about?
Do your adult children “shrivel” because of the way she talks to visitors, including their friends? Or why?
There have been many posts about how to deal with all these types of comments, particularly in public, but it’s hard to reply to you without more information.
"**Unfortunately, it is so very wrong to say "I can assure you there is literally no way we could sign away rights to my FIL's home right now. Not even with DH and SIL sharing POA because it is not activated" because:
***Documents like POA, even Committee of Estate/Person have no effect where an entity is not aware that such is in place, or where there is profit to be made***
Just another one of society's disservices to the vulnerable."
How is it wrong? I'm not even sure I understand what that statement means. We cannot sell my FIL's home. We have literally no rights to it. It is his home. The only way we could sell his home is on HIS behalf for HIS benefit if he needed the funds - and only IF the POA were to be activated. And he is fully aware that the POA is in place - he is the one that named the POA - that is legally the only way a POA can be named and only while he has the capacity to name them.
When you say "entity" are you referring to a bank or realtor? If so, if a person has legal capacity, they (at least with banks) are not supposed to deal with anyone but the legal owner of said property for example. If they even talk to someone else and they are not on the deed to the property, the legal owner is required to be present and give them permission to talk to their representative. FIL just did some business recently, and they wanted to know if BIL/SIL were involved with it. It was with regard to his home. He is the sole owner. They were not involved, he still handled his own business, signed his own documents, etc. He did most of the business online and there were some online signatures but they still sent a notary to his home to get the finalized documentation. I realize a lot of stuff is done online now - but all of the proper identification is required, which would also mean that your sister had to steal your mother's identification in order do the things she did. Aside from elder abuse you've probably got identity theft and fraud in there too.
Even if we were the type of people to attempt it for our own gain for some reason - which we absolutely are not- it would be pure folly for us to do so because that is his major asset at this point to cover his care if he needs to go into a care facility at some point and if he needed Medicaid and any of us benefited from the sale of his home- Medicaid would come after the ones who did for the lookback period and claw back the money. So it would be sheer stupidity.
Frankly - at this point - with his care needs increasing so dramatically recently - I'd be content with every single penny of his assets going to his care and there not being a penny left for anyone to inherit if it meant that he was able to go somewhere that he was able to be cared for 24/7 and the responsibility of providing his care was taken off of my SIL who lives with him.
To be honest - not everyone is like your sister. A lot of us are like you - just trying to do the best that we can. We are too busy trying to take care of him.
I was questioning whether your mother has capacity. Or at the very least for additional detail. It is very unusual for someone to be able to do all of the things that your sister did to your mother without outside help or the elderly person in question being unable to manage their own legal and financial responsibilities any longer and being much more vulnerable to being scammed. I'm assuming that up to that point your mother trusted your sister and this was unusual behavior for her? That she didn't have any reason to not trust her or expect her to do this?
You will find I'm not quick to judge, I tend to ask questions for clarity. You have laid out a number of concerning aspects of your life regarding your mother and I was trying to understand what the rest of her life looks like. Her relationship with your sister was pertinent to understand because if she treated your sister the way that she treats you and your children - that's a pattern- and it is not one that will change - and you would need to plan accordingly.
What happened to your mother was wrong and for that I'm very sorry.
That still does not mean that you have to continue to allow your children and yourself to be at your mother's mercy regarding what could amount to verbal abuse. You say your children are young adults. Are you prepared for the day they get fed up with it and don't want to deal with it anymore and just decide to move out? That's the natural progression anyway, but plenty of young adults are living with their parents much longer because of the economy and how expensive things are, and your children may have intended to stay longer, but may decide that if their grandmother is unable to change her ways and is remaining in their home that they will have to find another option.
Your original question was "is it possible to live with this?" The answer is up to you. You are already living with it. But you are not happy. Your children are not happy. The only one happy with the situation is your mother. You can try some options to see if she is capable of changing. But very often - and for good reason - the vast majority of people have great difficulty changing their ways after a certain age because they have always done things they way they are doing them. I'm not saying people can't change. But a lot of they time they WON'T change without some major reason/encouragement to do so. And boundaries get stomped all of the time.
So the real question is - where is your line in the sand? When does it become too much? For a lot of people the answer is never. They just deal with it because they don't want to make the other choice. And if that works for you, that's ok. Not everyone is comfortable with the idea of sending their parents to live in a care facility. I'm not for my mom, I am for my FIL and my grandmother. It just depends on the person and their level of care and needs for me. The good of the many outweigh the good of the one so to speak.
Setting boundaries involves you changing - not her. If you set boundaries and stick to them she may change or she may not.
Setting a boundary means determining a consequence for a particular behaviour of another person, letting them know what the consequences for that behaviour is and when that person demonstrates that behaviour, you respond with your predetermined and openly stated boundary.
e.g. Mother calls X type of people ignorant. You state that you will not continue a conversation with her if she speaks like that about X type of people, Next day, mother again says X type of people are ignorant. You apply your consequence and cease speaking to her, and perhaps, leave the room.
This doesn't change her - it changes you and therefore changes the dynamic in your relationship with her. It also demonstrates to your kids that you disapprove of and discourage that behaviour and models a boundary for them.
Mother may or may not change. Likely she will ramp up unacceptable behaviour in response to your boundary at first. You still stick to your boundary.
I know there is a history to your mum being with you. You must have been aware of her of her politically incorrect mouth. What did you expect to happen when you moved her in with you?
Considering the effect of her behavior on your children, I would consider placing her in a facility. The peace of your home and the welfare of your children should, IMO, come first.
Wishing you the best, Boundaries by Cloud and Townsend as mentioned by lea is an excellent book. Counseling can also be helpful in these situations.
But when you start adding in words like "misogynistic" and saying that your adult kids are beginning to "shrivel up under the weight of her judgment" it sends up red flags. And then you add in your profile which talks about "fighting your sister for POA" - because your mother wants to live with you. All due respect - of course she does!! What parent ISN'T going to want to live with the child that will take them home to live with them over the one that is going to send them to a skilled nursing facility. Slam and Dunk for mom. I don't mean to be rude at all with this.
I admit - after all of these years with my narcissistic FIL - I see Zebras as quickly as I see Horses when people start describing overly self-involved, judgmental, people and I have to be careful not to call someone a narcissist when they are really just super self-focused. But you had this to say about your mom and sister's interactions:
"My sister sold Mom's house out from under her without permission in attempt to control her money." HOW? You said your mom was deemed competent by the doctors. How was your sister able to sign away rights to your mother's home without her permission, if her name was not on the deed and your mother was not in agreement if she is competent? Your mother would have had to have granted permission and SIGNED the paperwork. I can assure you there is literally no way we could sign away rights to my FIL's home right now. Not even with DH and SIL sharing POA because it is not activated.
"She took Mom's phone away for 3 weeks and did everything in that time unbeknownst even to me." Again - I just don't understand how she was able to take control, sign your mother into a home, sign away the deed to her home, get control over everything if the POA was not activated and your mother was still considered competent. People who have mental capacity are not just ignored and thrown into a home and locked away. Unless they are put on a psychiatric hold.
"Mom cried to me to get her out of care where I found her in a drugged up stupor, and if this were an appropriate forum to spend time with the nuances of +100 page affidavit I had to file of the elder abuses Sister had put Mom through, I might." THIS I actually would be curious about to be honest - because this would actually explain the family dynamic and how your sister was able to do everything that she was able to do - because it would have taken an underhanded doctor working against your mother to do all of this and get her admitted to a facility against her will and activate the POA (that I still don't understand if you shared it or if Sister had it and you some how transferred to you - which I don't see how that happened if she wasn't competent, and if she was we are back to how did this all happen TO her?
**I would have updated my old profile & removed Sister, but felt after the 1st lady commented here about her that it'd be scummy for me to take away from others' understanding of what she had to say; but I will edit it now, despite integrity conflict.
Not sure if my character is an issue for you, yet recognizing likely futility in my addressing same, here goes:
Sister tricked Mom to sign with realtor saying she would find her a smaller more manageable house to live in; fire saled it, then attempted to deposit entire sale $ to her own bank. She had signed Mom's name electronically on the final sale document. By this time, Mom was so drugged, she was considered 'a ward of the state'. Sister took mom to facility saying you need somewhere to live; for-profit care home let her sign in, crying. Sister disconnected Mom's 40yrs landline at that time, later giving her a mobile phone she didn't teach how to use and no one could reach Mom. ***Remember that legally speaking, if no one knows there is something to contest, it won't be -this is how even in 1st world countries, elder abuse is rampant. The doctor was not "underhanded"; he was fed lies by Sister and prevented contact with me.
Once I figured out what the what was happening, I won sole Committeeship of Person by the courts and weaned Ma off the drugs with my doctor to get her capacity back.
I would do the same for anyone whose rights were being so trampled.
**Unfortunately, it is so very wrong to say "I can assure you there is literally no way we could sign away rights to my FIL's home right now. Not even with DH and SIL sharing POA because it is not activated" because:
***Documents like POA, even Committee of Estate/Person have no effect where an entity is not aware that such is in place, or where there is profit to be made***
Just another one of society's disservices to the vulnerable.
Get mom out of your home and living elsewhere if your children are "shrivelling a bit" due to their grandmothers belief in being perfect. Your children's happiness should always be your #1 goal in life. Nothing else comes before them. Too bad mom can't see what a negative influence she's having on her own family. But that's typical of her personality type.
Good luck to you
This was your Profile post. So you did bring up ur sister. In our experiences when someone places a LO in a home its because the care has gotten overwhelming for the Caregiver or the LO is or was abusive in some way. Putting down someone verbally is abuse and can have a life-time effect. Some people have the confidence to let it roll off their backs even come back at the person without being nasty. Then there are others that take it to heart and believe that maybe the person is right. Have u ever thought that Mom was drugged up because of her mouth? Especially if targeting other residents. And her phone, maybe she was abusing it by calling your sister all day long being abusive? Or maybe even friends and they were complaining to ur sister.
My daughter was on the chubby side as a kid. My Uncle had a personality disorder. He did not care if what he said or did hurt someone or not. His own sister did not like him. He weighted over 300lbs and had the nerve to tell my 12 yr old DD she was fat. Now my daughter even at 12 stood up for herself. This time she kept quiet. When we left she said "Mom I so wanted to come back on him so I was good" I agreed she was good but that I would have said nothing if she had said something. She is 45 and still hates him but its never effected the way she looked at herself. My youngest would have taken it to heart and has with something that happened when she was 5. What happened to her at five has effected the way she looks at herself and she is 37.
If your Mom has Dementia there will be no reasoning with her. Her short-term memory goes first so from day to day minute by minute she will forget any boundary you have set. If no Dementia you may be able to but seems this is Moms personality so going to be hard to change her. Your children will need to be taught how to deal with this. You set your boundries and stick by them. If she refuses to change, then you may need to place her again. Your home needs to be a safe place for your children. A place they can get away from the world and know there is unconditional love. They can be themselves.
And what you can kindly tell Mom is that she needs you more than you need her so she needs to change or she is going to find herself back into a NH. I am not beyond a little threat.
My sister sold Mom's house out from under her without permission in attempt to control her money. She took Mom's phone away for 3 weeks and did everything in that time unbeknownst even to me. Mom cried to me to get her out of care where I found her in a drugged up stupor, and if this were an appropriate forum to spend time with the nuances of +100 page affidavit I had to file of the elder abuses Sister had put Mom through, I might.
But I never brought up my sister here because how irrelevant is that to figuring boundaries to be able to live in peace with Mom. All good. I feel this is resolved and we'll be fine. thanks all.
About Me
Single parenting a teen and new adult, I'm always in the middle of fixing an appliance or car.
Currently fighting my sister for POA where Mom wants to live with me but sister has put her in a home in her province where we all started. I think Mom should be able to live where she wants.
This is "what your sister has to do with any of this" and why people take the time to read your profile to learn a bit more about you put situation. Irrelevant information s/b left off of your profile if it's irrelevant to your situation or if you don't want it discussed!
You say "Sister will not take mom in for any length of time nor call nor visit. She doesn’t believe in the family dynamic as you know it." As gently as I can put this, and I don't know the full situation obviously...but I can pick up a lot from how you have described your mother in your own words. "She has never made the life decisions I can respect." "She speaks definitively as though her opinions carry great weight." YOU describe her as judgey and misogynistic.
I'm getting the sense that your sister put your mother in a care facility because she knew she didn't want to live with her for all of the reasons that you yourself used to describe her. Those things don't just happen overnight unless her mental capacity changes. If she has always been that way, then you grew up feeling the same way that your kids do right now. And possibly even being groomed to take care of her one day.
I don't know you or your sister. So I don't know if she doesn't believe in the family dynamic or if she just put boundaries in place for herself and stuck by them because she knows exactly what will happen if she spends time with your mother. Perhaps it is time to really consider the reality that is in your home. DID you grow up with your mother behaving this way? Has she always been like this? Because if she has...you can put all of the rules you want to in place. You can put them on the walls, you can frame them, you can even make her sign a contract that says she is aware of them and agrees to abide by them. But she won't. Because she believes deep in her heart that she doesn't have to. She still thinks you are the child and that she doesn't have to follow your rules and she is going to continue to do what she wants to do.
AND if that is the case, you will have to make a choice as to how you wish to proceed. Because we can give you all kinds of creative ideas for how to get her to "be nicer" but it won't make a bit of difference if she can't or won't.