How do you get your fairly independent love one to give up driving?

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How do you get your fairly independent love one to give up driving?

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My 95-year old father is living in an independent living facility. He LOVES to drive. After a recent bout of intestinal illness and subsequent weakness he fell. He didn't break anything but had very bruised ribs and was in a great deal of pain. I was bringing him groceries and taking him to appointments for about a month. I was hoping this episode would make him realize that it was time to give up the keys. No such luck. Yesterday I received a call from a very kind and patient police officer who pulled him over for running a stop sign. He's currently waiting on new hearing aids and couldn't hear the siren and apparently didn't notice the flashing lights. I was hoping he'd get a ticket but the officer was buying "I'm a cute super senior" and didn't cite him. He did talk to his supervisor who will send a message to the DMV that means my dad will have to be evaluated and take another driving test. Meanwhile, he's free to drive. He needs to be off the road but is insanely independent and STUBBORN! Any suggestions of how to convince him to voluntarily give up driving?

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There is nothing you can do if the police themselves chose to do nothing about a clearly impaired driver.
Take him for this test at the DMV sooner rather than later, and tell them about this report, asking that a driving test be done as well as written and eye exam.
Other than reporting your Dad to the DMV there is little that you can do.
My brother had a serious accident before he gave up the driving; happily only HE was seriously injured, and not others.

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Reply to AlvaDeer

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Alva, although i wish it were possible, you don't get to tell the DMV what tests to give another citizen. Plus, i wouldn't run the risk of him taking the test and passing, which he might.

(1)

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Voluntarily? No, not without a therapeutic fib like, They said you can't drive until you take a retest (then do not remind him of this appointment, do not take him.)

Does he have a PoA? If so, this person needs to be dealing with this. If he has no PoA then... good luck.

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Reply to Geaton777

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I'd go find his car in the parking lot and remove the spark plugs if this were my father.

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Reply to lealonnie1

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Yes, this is important. Is there any way you could make a video showing the process of disabling a car for an elderly loved one and post it here?

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Wow, that police officer didn’t do him any favors by letting him off the hook. I am with you, I would rather see your dad get a ticket.

Oh my gosh, I don’t park in a handicap zone and I pull over immediately when I hear sirens. A person’s life depends upon getting them to the hospital in time.

I am sorry that you are dealing with this situation. It is frightening to think about your dad being hurt and him causing others to be hurt or worse, die!

The last time I said that when people hit a certain age they should be required to take a driving test I was accused of ageism! I don’t care what anyone accuses me of I still believe that people should be tested annually or maybe more frequently!

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Reply to NeedHelpWithMom

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Dementia goes so quickly- my mom "hit the age of testing," and drove like a pro. Two years later, she can't remember how to pull the keys out. I wish that concerned family members could request that driver's test trigger and that the test would then happen quickly.

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I wonder how that same police officer would feel if he was called to the scene of an accident involving your father and the driver of the other car was killed. That police officer did not do your dad any favors by not giving him a ticket. Very irresponsible of him. Maybe show your dad a bunch of articles about senior drivers who have killed people because they refused to stop driving. Would that change his mind? I don't know. Maybe, maybe not.

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Reply to sp196902

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I'm not really sure if the suggestion to reason is feasible. In my experience, those with dementia feel completely normal and are concerned about the eroding world around them if they're concerned with anything. The suggestions of not programming keys, hiding keys, waiting so long, driving becomes an impossibility... etc. are the best tactics- that, and getting the police to react more quickly...

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I know cops that ticket every mom who doesn’t take the time to buckle their kids up. They are good cops.

My oldest daughter tried to get out of buckling up. Kids wouldn’t be kids if they didn’t try. She was excited to get to the playground. It is up to us not to let them get away with it!

I told my daughter that the wheels didn’t turn if she wasn’t buckled up! LOL 😆

Well, one day my dad tried to get away without buckling up. My three year old from the back seat says, “Grandpa! You have to buckle up or the wheels won’t turn. My dad looked at me and said, “Is that what you told her? That’s brilliant! I guess I better buckle up!

I realize that it’s harder to control your dad in this situation. It’s sad and dangerous for everyone who is on the road around him.

The cop who flagged down your dad screwed up!

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Reply to NeedHelpWithMom

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Thanks for the advice. To clarify, the officer immediately talked to his supervisor and they will let the DMV know that he HAS to take a new exam that will be more than just the driving test. Reflex time, some cognitive skills tests. He also followed him home (about 2 miles). Unfortunately, the car is parked in a garage with cameras. Trust me, we've even contemplated having the car mysteriously "disappear". I have POA, which means nothing in this situation because he's legally permitted to drive at this time. And, yes, I'm terrified that he'll pass the test.

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Reply to ItsPat7683

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Read your PoA doc to see what triggers your authority. If its a diagnosis of cognitive impairment then get him in for his Medicare senior physical and hand a prewritten note to the doc telling about the driving incident. Be in the room during the testing. This is assuming the PoA is springing and not durable. Durable means it's already active. My Uncle killed his passenger, his wife of 65+ years and 2x cancer survivor, by going through a red light and getting t-boned, because his children didn't do whstever it took to stop him from driving. They didn't want to fight with him. Look what they got instead. So sad. And preventable.

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Hello. I've walked in your shoes. When my mom was in her late 80's and had Alzheimer's, she (stubbornly) thought she could still drive, and that was driving me crazy. I sent a note to her doctor before a scheduled appointment,(I drove us there),and the doc steered the conversation to driving, and said how lucky my mom was to have a daughter as a chauffeur,and with increasingly bad trafic around here, it was a good idea to let me do the driving. In that way, it was the "doc's" decision, and not mine. When I wrote a book about Hubby and I taking care of my mom when she had Alzheimer's ("My Mother Has Alzheimer's and My Dog Has Tapeworms: A Caregiver's Tale"), I have a chapter entitled, "Car Ma, I mean Karma," detailing this issue. It's frustrating for everyone. Maybe with your dad, you can make the idea of being a passenger seem like a gift, rather than a restriction. As we all know, driving involves not only the rules of the road, but the unwritten ones, that involve judgment, perception, quick reflexes, etc.Best of luck.

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Reply to rlynn123

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I will follow this one closely. My 83 yr old husband still says he’s fine at driving n to this point nothing has happened worth mentioning yet. I say yet. I’ve noticed scrapes n bumps on vehicle n also garage. Just this month alone he’s collapsed 3 times from low sugars or BP or? Fortunetly not while driving. Discharged from hospital yesterday n will question his primary Dr at his follow up visit. This will not go easy

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Reply to FOTONUT

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He might have forgotten that he can still drive until the retest. So take him everywhere he needs to go until then. Hide his keys. He may or may not pass the test.

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Reply to swmckeown76

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My father was a truck driver for nearly 50 years. So, I knew that taking his keys or his vehicles would be a tremendous battle. Instead of taking the keys or the vehicles or disabling them in any way, I purchased identical keys but did not have them electronically programmed to work the cars (both vehicles are fairly new and the keys not only have to be cut correctly, but also must be programed - in the alternative you could just have the keys cut wrong so they will not work). I then swapped out the keys when he was not looking. He has 24-7 care so if he ever wants/needs to go somewhere, we take him. Since we always drive him, he rarely tries to drive. Nevertheless, there have been several times when he is having an "episode" (the nicest name I can think for those occasions) that he decides he is "going home" (he lives at home), going to work (he has not worked in 20 years), or "I am getting out of this place", and he has tried to drive. Of course the keys do not work and he eventually gives up and within a short time he has forgotten. Swapping out the keys allowed him, in his mind, to keep his independence, while still assuring that he did not drive and endanger himself and others. Just as an aside, I swapped the keys over three years ago. Over the course of those years, he has gotten to the point that he doesn't even remember the keys and we just did not return them to him after he "lost" them one time.

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Reply to MC1965

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Every night my GFs ALZ Dad would put his keys and wallet in his pants pockets, fold the pants up and put them over the back of his chair. Her parents did kot share a room anymore because he was up at 5am in the morning. This one morning he goes into his wifes bedroom and says he can't find his pants. She looks everywhere, cabinets, stove, microwave, ect. No pants. She tells him this means he cannot drive anymore, no keys, no license and he agrees. A woman at Church if she had checked undervhis mattress. Mrs Svsaid that she makes his bed. Woman says, way under his mattress...and there the pants were. Mrs S took the wallet and keys and hid them in her room. By this time, Mr. S had excepted he no longer could drive. She sold his car and bought herself one.

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Reply to JoAnn29

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Gosh, I wish that officers were better informed about seniors with dementia. I wonder if there's any way you might contact your local police office and enlist their help in "catching" your father. They are usually super willing to help out. This sounds like there is no time to lose, so my recommendation would be to call them right away and get the wheels rolling more quickly. The main thing I'd suggest is that the "taking away of the keys" come from someone outside the family and that the car disappear from view. Some people disable the car somehow- you'll find it here somewhere. Lots of strength to you...

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Reply to Calliesma

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His keys need to get "lost." Your dad ran a stop sign and could have been killed. He could have killed an innocent child, or a family, or hit a bus. You already know that dad shouldn't be driving anymore, so quit trying to convince. It's time to demand.

Methinks you've always deferred to dad, but this is different. Are you afraid he'll get mad at you? Cut you out of the will? Please examine the reason that in your mind, it's not okay for you to demand something that's for his own safety and that of others.

My BIL was killed at age 49 by a drunk driver. BIL left four children and a young wife. Life was never the same for any of us. Needless to say, I have no patience with those who drive impaired or those who allow them to do it when they know it could mean injury or death for people who didn't deserve it.

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Reply to Fawnby

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Take his keys away. He is a danger to himself and others!

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Reply to dwg1935

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wow! that's a hard one - i am 77 and independant and dred the day i have to give up driving - it's depressing enough getting older and then to have to give up the one thing that gives me independence is more depressing - i don't mean to sound so negative but it's true! my dad had decided on his own, to give it up but then i was the one who ended up having to take him to the dr etc. now i think there are people who you can pay to do that, if you can trust them. good luck and God Bless

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Reply to AngieGuido74

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i should have added that there are plenty of people on the road both young adults and older who are a danger to the road.

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Reply to AngieGuido74

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Police can prevent someone from driving if they seem "impaired" at the time of the traffic stop or have commited an offense. But only a judge or the DMV can cease someone's driving privileges long-term or permanently.

The police don't assess whether someone has dementia. They make decisions based on the actions of that driver at the time they are stopped.

I once reported what I thought was a drunk driver. His vanity plate said "BARF" (a retred doctor). The 911 operator knew who it was immediately and told me it was a very elderly man who they obviously had stopped before.

There's a legal process that takes place from the police's end, but it may differ by state. The senior needs to commit some sort of infraction for the cops to take the senior away and impound the car. If there are enough violations in their record then they have more leverage take it to the next level to restrict their driving, through a judge and/or the DMV.

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Reply to Geaton777

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This is not an easy situation to be in. We reported my FIL to the DMV which took 5 weeks for them to send him a letter requiring retesting. They gave him 3 months in which to comply. He waited to the last possible minute to take the test. Our state allows 5 (yep, 5) tries to pass the test before they suspend his license for 1 year or permanently revoke it. He will be 93 in September. He has failed 4 times. His license is currently suspended, and he has a learner's permit. His 5th try is on April 2. We removed the license plate from his car. Until we did that, we caught him driving alone anyway. He has stopped speaking to us and has convinced the neighbors to take him for his 4th and 5th tests. So, we won't know the outcome unless one of them develops a conscience. They are all elderly and feel sorry for him. He bought himself an electric scooter and scoots to the grocery store, pharmacy, and ALF where his wife lives in a memory care unit. This is not safe for anyone, but he thinks there is a conspiracy theory at work here against old people driving. BTW, the event that caused us to take action was finding him "asleep" on his couch with the car running in his closed attached garage.

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Reply to dildebfla

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What good is removing the license plate? It can't keep him from driving the car. It won't keep him from leaving the car running in the garage and killing himself with exhaust. If he does drive it, the plate is identification so that he can be reported and easily found.

Where are his car keys?

You could hire someone to drive him around a couple of mornings or afternoons a week. That would get him out and provide companionship.

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my moms car was at the dealer getting serviced. i figured she would remember how to drive after 70 years of driving—shes 87. nope. she asked me to go get soneone to tell her what to do. i took the keys went and talked to the assistant manager whos a family friend and asked him to keep the car. he agreed. we live 6 hours away. we are planning on selling it. i do have poa.
so when she brings it up i remind her what she said, she denies it, and we argue. she threatens to call the lawyer but never does.
its likely not the best way to deal with it but since the doctor knows she has dementia but never told her, this is what i am doing.
i drive her everywhere which i dont mind doing.

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Reply to justme54

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I shared this before and will share again. My late mother at age 92 in 2012 insisted she could still drive when her even when doctors reported her as an unsafe driver at age 88 because of her heart condition. My family got after me to get the keys away from her and disable the car. I tried to keep the keys away from her but it did not work. So, when I lost my job in 2012, I started driving her everyplace and did not allow her to use her car. I kept her car away from her in an inaccessible range and changed parking spaces, also kept it clean for one year. Finally, it was time for its annual inspection. When it required a $500 job to fix the steering wheel crack, my mother decided to not pay for it and sell the car instead! That resolved our problem! Shortly afterwards, Mom had to enter a nursing home after several falls at home.

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Reply to Patathome01

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Here is a late San Francisco article I want to share that is an example of an unsafe driver that happened one week ago.

She is 78 years old and speeded an SUV into a bus shelter that killed three of a young family of four; a second baby died from severe injuries just days afterwards. Very sad. This family was waiting for public transportation to visit the S.F. zoo and never made it. S.F. mayor is addressing safety on our roads.

West Portal victims: 2-year-old baby, parents killed in San Francisco West Portal bus stop crash identified - ABC7 San Francisco (abc7news.com)

The Medical Examiner's office on Tuesday identified the victims as Diego Cardoso de Oliveira, 40, and Matilde Ramos Pinto, 38. Their 1-year-old child, Joaquin Ramos Pinto de Oliveira, was also identified.
INTERACTIVE: Take a look at the ABC7 Neighborhood Safety Tracker
The crash happened Saturday when the woman crashed an SUV into a bus shelter on Ulloa Street.
A 78-year-old woman was arrested for the crash on suspicion of vehicular manslaughter and reckless driving. She has not yet been formally charged.

Please help unsafe drivers stay off the road and use alternative transportation instead.

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Reply to Patathome01

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Take the keys . Let him think he lost them.

That will open up the discussion that he should no longer drive .

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Reply to waytomisery

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ItsPat7683: Remove a key element in his automobile.

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Reply to Llamalover47

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Talk to him about the danger posed by slower reflexes and diminished peripheral vision frequent among the elderly. These are common and no one's fault. Suggest a vision check by an ophthalmologist (maybe one he's visited before). Or maybe testing by the DMV will do the trick.

If he's been an excellent and safe driver, remind of that, too. If he's not as quick as he used to be, it's not his fault. But remind him that if a careless child should run into the street in front of him and be injured (or worse) he'd never never forgive himself.

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Reply to Dosmo13

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ItsPat7683, extreme stubbornness is an early behavioral symptom of dementia, not a personality trait. Dementia robs people of their ability to use reason and logic. It progressively worsens their judgment, and prevents them from being able to empathize with others. This is why "talking" to him about his driving and running over children will be pointless. Time for you to be proactive.

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Reply to Geaton777

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Being able to independantly use a taxi is still being independant 😁

My crystal ball guesses that is next 🔮

Yes it takes more planning. Money too BUT cars cost money to run (fuel, servicing, registration, insurance etc) Alot of money actually.

Yes he may still know HOW to drive, nobody doubts that.. it's as they said below: Reaction time, kids on the road. Heck, I have to watch for wandering old people in my area (so many age care homes).

At 95, with hearing impairment, phoning for a taxi may be hard. Communicating with the driver hard too. Plus safely manourering in & out of the vechicle, ensuring you book a sedan(not a too high SUV). Maybe manouve a cane or walker too.

If not safe, then family (or a support worker) are required for transport. Yep. Old age sucks.

Let's face it. We start of in a pram, learn to ride a little trike, then a two wheel bicycle, ride buses & trains, drive a car, ride taxis, use a wheeler, use a wheelchair. Finanally get wheeled out in a coffin on a trolley into a hearse.

The wheels keep changing as we go.

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Reply to Beatty

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Here is the text of a letter I gave to my sister 2 years ago (she was 94 at the time). I added a "Copy to" attorney who prepared her Power of Attorney document. I did not give the attorney a copy, but did that to create the impression that this was more than a discussion between the two of us.

Subject: Driving your car

Dear

This is to confirm that this morning (Monday, August 29) I gave you your purse, at your request,. It contained your wallet with various identification cards, driver’s license, credit cards, keys for your car and your house, and other miscellaneous items.

I suggest that you do not drive. Keep your license because you can use it for identification but give me your car keys the next time you see me.

You don’t drive as well as you previously did. You put yourself, innocent pedestrians, and other drivers at risk. I know you think you drive better than many other drivers, but when an accident occurs what you think will not help you out of the legal mess in which you find yourself. Your insurance policy will not begin to cover the amount you can be sued for if you are found at fault in an accident. Everything you cherish and have worked for will be at risk, not to mention the regret or remorse you may feel because of the injuries or even deaths you cause.

You have made comments and inferred that “we” (,,,,, and I) are trying to hinder you and are making your life difficult by straightening up, cleaning up, and getting rid of unnecessary clutter in your house. You told me on Sunday that you felt like a burglar has been in your house. I was surprised by the implication, that “things” were missing since you went to the hospital. I told you that if a burglar had gotten in your house, he would have broken a leg trying to find his way around and if you went to court you would be guilty of sloppy housekeeping.

How you choose to live in your own house is up to you, but to take that self-centered attitude on the streets and put others at risk is the height of irresponsibility. Despite appearances to the contrary, you do occasionally demonstrate common sense and concern about others. I suggest that giving me the keys to your car would be a step in that direction.

In closing I want to emphasize that this is not intended to start a debate or create an ongoing discussion about driving. It is intended to encourage you to give me the keys to your car and for you to willingly stop driving in the interest of your self-preservation and the safety of others on the road.

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Reply to ras4133

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What did your sister say ? Or did she just silently hand you the keys ?

(2)

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This is such a touchy subject with the elderly and I get it...driving was our first feeling of independence and freedom and to have it taken away is devastating.

There are doctors who diagnose dementia and give a "simulated driving test". It measures their response time and whether they obey signs and lights, etc. after the test the doctor will tell them whether they should be driving based on the results.
You could disable the car (disconnect the battery) or hide the keys until he goes to the BMV. Depending on how aware he is, you could take the car away and tell him it is being repaired. Every time he asks about it just tell him they have ordered parts.

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Reply to Jamesj

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Or tell him your car broke down and you need to borrow his.

Or disconnect the battery

(3)

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Let the state do the dirty work! Meanwhile, you may want to hide his keys, at your house?
It took my state about two month to respond to an inquiry for my husband.

How do you get your fairly independent love one to give up driving?

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