How to handle a former family caregiver who berates herself?

She lost a lot. Her role in life, her husband and housemate. She is alone all day. Of course she is lost and depressed. Highly unlikely that she would step off into a singles travel adventure because it's probably been many a year since she did things alone. Invite her to visit you or go there when you can. If you take a trip, invite her to get her out of the house and back to living.

You might even ask if she is happy living where she does. Might be too early to change that, but maybe she would be happier to be closer to you or some other relative that she could physically be in the company of instead of alone in her home.

Dear MomsOldest,
Your sister in law's self beratement stems from a place of fear. She feels lost and frightened and alone. These are new feelings for her, and probably doesn't quite know what to do with them.
As caregivers, we are usually in a place of control and doing. We make decisions for our loved ones and implement the plans. All of that is gone for her.
She needs someone to take her by the hand and walk with her a ways. Walk with her until she finds a path/goal she's excited about following.
Take that trip with her. Don't hand her a brochure and send her off on her own.

You can (and have) only do so much.
If she is 'stuck' on self-deprivation and low self-esteem, she likely won't change, or have the skills (inner psychological resources) or awareness to make different decisions than what she is currently doing.
* If her behavior is distressing YOU, as you indicate, tell her this. Tell her you will be glad to talk to her ONCE / WHEN she takes some positive action on her own behalf.
- If you do not set boundaries, she will continue to drain you (emotionally) as she doesn't know what else to do or how to handle herself for her own healing. If you continue on as you are, you are being a 'co-dependent' supporting her behavior.
- You may need to remove yourself from the situation. Or allow this to be a 'broken record' - it is for a therapist or support group, not you. It is called tough love. Gena/Touch Matters

She needs to see a counsellor and maybe a psychiatrist. Check for some in her local area and insist that she get an evaluation completed. Her grieving has taken an unhealthy direction and needs to be addressed.

I know someone that does this. At first, I was empathetic. Unfortunately, all this did was amp up her self berating behavior to the point of not being able to be around her very often anymore.

By the way, this woman’s husband died in 2009 and she is still acting this way! She’s an energy vampire. She drains every ounce of energy that I have. I started to realize that she was like this before I even knew her.

Her behavior has become so ridiculous that I told her that I am not her shrink and to go see a therapist. Her reply, “I have gone and what can they do? They can’t take my hurt away. Blah, blah, blah.” I reminded her that she has many blessings in her life that many others don’t have and that she would feel a whole lot better if she was grateful for the good things in her life.

Then she said that she was grateful for things. I told her that I would have never known that she was grateful for anything because all she does is whine, complain and berate herself. She clearly does it because she wants others to say, ‘You’re not dumb! You’re not this or that.’ Sorry, that is exhausting to do over and over! Any suggestions that are made are shot down. It’s too much to deal with. She acts like the entire world revolves around her.

I truly hope that your situation won’t be this way. If it becomes a never ending cycle and she loves being miserable, then run! Misery loves company. I worked very hard in therapy to get out of my own misery and I have no intention of going back to it.

So, when this acquaintance of mine started showing me that she has a bald spot on her head from pulling her hair out, I told her to go see a therapist or buy a wig! She wants to have our entire conversation be only about her! If I mention something happy in my life, she completely ignores it and brings the topic right back to her self berating. It gets old quickly!

Good luck! As for me, I no longer have the patience for non stop self abuse with anyone any longer. It’s works on my last nerve and drains me to the point of feeling exhausted. When someone’s behavior becomes too much, and they have had a reasonable amount of time to work on issues, and they never make any effort to improve, then it’s time to let go.

I am all for helping others, but people have to want help in order to receive it. Otherwise, it’s a waste of their time and mine.

IT sounds like she needs to see a preacher or a preacher's wife-- or his associate -- and then she will be shown all about how imperfect we all are-- how the Good Lord gave us all a free will. And how HE is basically in charge in spite of what we think. What she needs as well is to go to a retreat like with Joyce Meyer-- and all the ladies... and get a total immersion. Biblically, spiritually-- be given the option of accepting the Lord as savior again and being baptized. Maybe even a trip to Israel with a TV preacher-- like Jentzen Franklin-- and boy will she be ministered to... and come away with such an incredible revelation-- nothing like getting the onus off of you and on Him. Perhaps if she went with a friend or two. THERE is nothin' like taking the bull by the horns-- even several biblical Prophets went through times of depression after a stressful tiring time-- Look at Elijah.

Some people have very high expectations like me and feel horrible when they can't do what they think they should be capable of doing (I am like that - I won't accept less than doing what normal people do). I understand how she feels. Don't argue - it won't change anything. Just listen for few moments and say to her you can understand how she feels and how hard it must be and then change the subject. Leave her think what she does - it won't stop. If she won't stop, just excuse yourself and leave. Don't try to make a stone into sand - won't work. Just look after yourself and leave her be if it upsets you.

While you seem to mean well, please stop analyzing this lady. She is hurt, she is lonely, she doesn’t know who she is anymore. In her time, she will get better, not on some schedule you may believe is appropriate. Listen to her, do not judge her, you certainly haven’t walked in her shoes and have no idea about which you speak. If she doesn’t readily take you up on the suggestions of things she can do going forward, don’t be offended, hold those ideas until she is ready, you will know when that time comes because she will tell you.

Love on her, as is for now. Thanks.

I agree that AlvaDeer nails it. As a former family caregiver, I offer my perspective. I cared for my Mom with LBD for the last 10 years of her life. When she died, it was easy to see that I had made choices throughout the process - especially at the very end. It was not so easy to let go of the idea/delusion that had I made different choices, the outcome would have been better. She lived exactly as long as she had intended to and was reasonably happy until the last 2 months when we used hospital and nursing home. “What if” became the destructive game. What if I hadn’t agreed to let the ambulance take her to the hospital? What if I had not approved/allowed the intense dosing of antibiotics, knowing she did not want to be kept alive, only to die in a hospital or nursing home setting? What if I had (or had not) … ? It was hard to transition into “good grief” and I had to have help to understand that my refusal to give myself a break was not something that honored her. Yes, I knew better — I’m trained in psychology and life coaching and even some PTSD treatments. No matter. My heart was broken and felt dead like a rock. I needed help and luckily it was available, though it was still hard for me to acknowledge my need and use the resources available to me. I think many of us as caregivers have a fierce streak of independence that sees us through the years of caregiving, but is not the ultimate answer in the aftermath.

Within a few months after Mom’s death, my sister and co-caregiver had gone into a deep depression which ended in her suicide. Again, I got mired in the “what if’s”, as she had depended on me for much more guidance and support than I was able to offer. Why? Because by that time, my husband had been diagnosed with MCD and I was again being a caregiver. Now I also have the daily “What if’s” of second-guessing myself in my care of him. These 3 tragedies in such close succession were a direct challenge to most of my beliefs about who I was and what was mine to do in life. I had always been successful at work; now I saw myself as a failure at home. SERIOUS need for recalibration with reality when it seemed the only reality was all the ways I had proved myself inadequate.

Feels like being robbed at a very deep and invasive level. Building a new identity, a new self-image, a new life … yes, all things she needs to do and is likely struggling with. For the people around her, it seems that insight should be followed quickly with change and resolution. For her, it probably feels like she is wading through muck up to her neck — forward progress of a half-inch feels like a major victory to her, but like slacking to others. So yes, try to just be with her and reflect back her feelings — someone has said that your advice is only good for one person — you. She doesn’t need advice as much as she needs your unconditional listening, love and support. It’s very tiring and frustrating and difficult to find and maintain the patience that takes. You are already well on your way. But if you can bring yourself to say more things like, “wow, that sounds like it would be very hard — is there more?” (period. full stop) and fewer things like, “here’s what you should do” or “why don’t you try”… Relieve yourself of the responsibility for solving her problems — that protects your energy as well as honoring her own way of coping. People sent me books - some of which I read parts of and found helpful, and some of which are still untapped. But they reminded me that they were thinking of me and loving me. Cards with affirmations of her worth and your love. Invitations to visit, or to dinner, or whatever - but INVITATIONS only, not EXPECTATIONS that lead her to add more guilt when she does not comply. Demonstrate your confidence that she will continue to be an important part of your universe, no matter how she copes. Acknowledgement helps more than advice. Acceptance helps more than “constructive criticism”.

I have an acquaintace that does this to the point I really curtail my time with her.

She has a myriad of health problems and mental ones too. Acc to her, her DH hates her and puts her down incessantly. Once I was feeling kind of cross with her b/c she cannot go 2 hours w/o constant complaints--and I said "If you have been so miserable for so many years, why are you still with this man? If he is this abusive, why sit and take it?" Wow--deer in the headlights. I guess nobody had ever called her on this behavior before and she was shocked to the core.

Of course she didn't leave him, nor anything nigh unto it. She just ramped up her complaints. I finally realized that she WANTS to be miserable and sick and although she has family that fusses and helps her no matter what---she WANTS to be the object of sympathy.

This is an illness unto itself, and I can't help nor cure her. Your cousin sounds as if she is going through grief and this will pass--if she lets it. You are kind to keep an eye on her and I hope she has the sense to seek out counseling or some kind of support group in a little while.

Self hate is a huge waste of time. My grandma used to say 'don't tell people how lousy you feel. 10% will feel sorry for you, 90% will be glad'. In a nutshell, we have only so much sympathy to give someone and then when they simply refuse to take advice and they are stuck in a loop---it's almost impossible to get out of that loop without help.

Apparently, what you're doing is not working, so how about changing the conversation? My go-to approach is to ask for advice, either about something relating to her experience or an old expertise, like preparing mashed potatoes? You'd then be able to give her a compliment (i.e. "your potatoes were always the best")

Is there a bereavement group she can join or who will get in contact with her. Grief especially where you have been a carer so also have a potential guilt aspect, has stages, she will get through this, but if she can get in touch with some others who have gone through this it will give her some support.

Thank you for all your comments. I have to say this forum is certainly helpful!

Imho, perhaps she needs to seek out a counselor.

Thank you for all your comments. I have to say this forum is certainly helpful!

Don't defend her any more.
If she talks bad about herself. Let her.

Juse ask her why she thinks it and don't disagree with her.

Tell her she can go to Counseling and it will help her.

Every time she talks like this, just change the subject and refer her to Counseling or better yet, set up something like a grieving group and go with her.

After a death. Lots of people think about what they might have done differently.

Deach of loved one is sad and can take many years to get through.

Prayers

Can you invite her to visit you. Change of scenery may do her good. Talking face to face may be better.

She's been a widow for TWO months after being with someone for 35 years. Of course she's grieving, second-guessing herself, and going through an entire raft of emotions.

You know her better than anyone, so whether she's the type to bounce back from adversity or not is better for you to say than for us. You might consider giving her a book on grief such as Martha Hickman's "Healing After Loss," and she can start working through her emotions one short page at a time. If she doesn't seem to be getting her head above water after a while, you can suggest a grief counselor or group to help her.

It's important for her to understand that she didn't do anything wrong, and to stop blaming herself, but it will take time.

It’s very possible that Susan is really really lonely. Her world has been very full until recently, she has no children, and now her world is empty. There is no pathway forward, and that must add to making her feel incompetent.

My first reaction is ‘how old is she’? A husband for 35 years doesn’t really indicate if she’s 55 or 70. Perhaps she should be thinking about downsizing, and moving to a retirement village or senior living, somewhere she can make the new life she needs. Phone calls to you aren’t the answer.

Can you find of a way to help her think along these lines? She needs a new plan!

Other than what was said previously, just love her and let her know she is important to you and you want to see her work through her grief to the other side to find joy again in her life. Keep suggesting that she need counseling - if nothing else grief counseling.

Whether depression, grieving, or low self esteem, it would be good for her to seek counseling, to have someone to help her see that the negative "self talk" is only reinforcing her negative perspective which is not based in reality. I do like Alva's suggestion of letting her know gently that it is distressing.

These habitual expressions of feeling inadequate, and the responses they get, which are also habitual, form paths in the brain. The things we say to ourselves over and over and over like a loop-feed have great power. Often it begins because of a need to have someone respond "Oh, you are so wrong; you were wonderful". People often do this to avoid going into real grief. Therapists tell us that this keeps someone in an area where the thought is that "SOMEthing" could have been done to prevent what happened. Then we don't have to actually face the loss and wade through the grief.
I think you should change your response. You co this habitual thinking by actually negating what she says. So don't respond "Oh, Noooooo.............." followed by the reasons she is wrong. Tell her instead "It is distressing to hear you say these things about yourself. You aren't a God, or even a good fairy with a wand; you haven't that kind of power; at the same time you are not a felon who should feel grief over his evil-doing". You are a human being. You have done what you could, and done it with love. Try to switch your G words out from GUILT to GRIEF, because grief is what you must face now. If you need help do seek it to comb through your feelings."
I wish her good luck. It is distressing to hear this behavior, and sympathizing with it will increase it. Do let her know that the more often she repeats these things to herself the more she cements them into her consciousness. That it does NO HONOR whatsoever to those she loved so very much, and now has lost. Give her ways to work through her feelings. Journaling often helps, especially if it is used to celebrate the lives of those lost.
Wish you all well..

She needs professional help. Just telling her she is not bad is like banging your head against a wall. It is a perverse way of grieving thinking you have had the power to reverse what was truly beyond your control. It is grandiose to assume you had that power. She needs someone who knows how to help her by dealing with more than the present and exploring her past relationships with the deceased. Just ignore her self flagellation. Tell her she needs help and change the subject.