To make a very long story short, my daughter does not have a good relationship with her grandfather. It has gotten worse since she is an adult now. She does not call him at all and does not want to be around him. I have tried to get her to open up to me about it but all she will say is that he is not a very nice person. If you are familar with my story, you know that my dad and I have not had a good relationship either. He is now in a facility and she has said that when she comes home, she will not visit him. My fear is that she may regret not visiting him if something happens to him. He has asked why she will not talk to him and I have told him it is because of his attitude and how he has been towards us at times.
It was very difficult explaining my reasons to those who insisted I visit people who had always been abusive, especially when they decided my reasons weren't valid. I no longer speak with any of my birth family, and this is one of the reasons.
Let your daughter maintain her distance, because what feels like "constant" reminding to call or pressure (even if it's not really that frequent) to have contact will potentially damage your relationship with your daughter.
I understand! Whenever my daughter comes home for a holiday, my dad would always badger her with questions or something about her weight. I told him specifically not to do this when she came home a couple of years ago, and he did it anyway. He asked a million unecessary questions, acted like he did like the food we prepared and he acted like he did not like his gifts.
"@Daughterof1930,
I have taken myself out of this equation. For someone to not want to talk or have contact with another person has to be for a very good reason. I do not need anything extra on my plate so I'm removing this. All I want is for my daughter to be happy. When you said that about your parents not attending recitals, it reminded me of the time when my dad was angry with my daughter's piano teacher's husband. It had nothing to do with piano lessons so because he was mad, he wanted my daughter to stop taking lessons but I refused. So he would not go to her recital. It is things like that he did that I'm sure my daughter remembers. He would not even attend her Senior Party dinner that I and a few other parents organized for our children. He was mad because we would have it at his house. But my daughter begged me not me because she was afraid he would embarrass her ."
I had an Uncle who never cared how he hurt someone. My DD was on the chubby side at 10 and he called her fat. This was a man who was 300lbs. My daughter said nothing till we got out the door. "I was good Mom. I didn't say anything." I told her if she had, I would not have punished her. She hated that man until he died and still does.
Do not make excuses for her absence, as Isthisrealyreal stated the ..." the phone system works both ways.", allow your granddaughter to make her own decisions, she is an adult and you might be actually making things more difficult for her by forcing the issue.
Please do not force your granddaughter to have a relationship with someone she is not comfortable doing so, it will only make things worse and create resentment towards you.
I have taken myself out of this equation. For someone to not want to talk or have contact with another person has to be for a very good reason. I do not need anything extra on my plate so I'm removing this. All I want is for my daughter to be happy. When you said that about your parents not attending recitals, it reminded me of the time when my dad was angry with my daughter's piano teacher's husband. It had nothing to do with piano lessons so because he was mad, he wanted my daughter to stop taking lessons but I refused. So he would not go to her recital. It is things like that he did that I'm sure my daughter remembers. He would not even attend her Senior Party dinner that I and a few other parents organized for our children. He was mad because we would have it at his house. But my daughter begged me not me because she was afraid he would embarrass her .
Last time I checked the phone system works both ways, why some people sit around and never reach out, yet, they have the nerve to complain about someone else that does actually call is mind blowing to me. My mom did this crap and it made me less likely to call. Crikey, if you wanna talk to someone get off you backside and call them. It would amaze people to see how well that works out.
He was "not a nice man" to his grandchildren either - that involved ignoring them when they were present, or conversely - ensuring that he wildly favored his grandson over his granddaughters when he did actually pay attention to any of them. When MIL was still alive, we made the effort to ensure that SHE saw the children - which unfortunately meant he did (in hindsight I actually DO regret this). But once she passed away - we no longer made the effort to ensure that HE saw the children - we gave them the option of whether they wanted to go visit or not - the youngest being 11 at the time - as they had all expressed to us that when they visited they basically avoided him anyway because he didn't engage or talk to them and when he did it was invasive or mean.
As adults -because he was incapable of being accountable for his own behavior (how he treated them, ignored them, talked badly about them to other people - quite literally the final straw for my youngest who still visited was him saying that his grandchildren never visited him to someone on the phone when she was literally sitting in the room waiting for him to get off of the phone so they could talk.)they collectively did not visit or call him.
When he was on his death bed - we gave each of them the opportunity to call (or visit) him in the SNF. Two were in other cities/states and took the opportunity to say goodbye via phone. Two were local (within a reasonable drive) - one (my youngest) asked to go with us to say goodbye. The other chose to say goodbye via phone. No one was pressured in ANY WAY to even talk to him, much less go in person.
It is hard when your children do not have a good relationship - but if you yourself do not have a good relationship and you know your father is not a good person or does not nurture relationships, it's not a giant leap to him not having a good relationship with your daughter.
Do any of our children regret anything about how they chose to interact with their grandfather - well realistically only they know if they feel differently deep down than they have expressed. But I can tell you that not one of them has ever said they regret protecting themselves and having the kind of relationship they had. They don't regret not seeing him much for many years before he died. THEY are not the ones that were in the wrong. They have nothing to feel bad or to regret. They did all they could to have a relationship with their grandfather and HE is the one that spoiled it.
Your story sounds familiar to mine. Before my dad went to facility, there were MANY times I would be at his house sitting with him and helping out. He would get phone calls while I was there. Once I heard him tell a friend of his that he does not have help on the weekends! I was sitting right there and guess what?? It was the weekend.
He needs to realize that he caused this situation and that my daughter and I did not. He was verbally/mentally abusive to my mom and I. When my daughter came along, he began to treat her the same way
I'm glad she knows I'm not a reflection of my father as well. When I gave birth to her, I vowed that she would have a happier childhood than I did and that I would never treat her the way I was treated. I know that she is concerned about me. Before he went to a facility, she told me that she hates that I have to deal with so much regarding his care. I tried my best to raise her up to be kind and caring and to also take care of herself.
I have no doubt that you suffered horribly as a kid. I also realize that no one goes through trauma without it leaving scars behind.
Scars are ugly but they won’t kill us. They are only an ugly reminder of the past. In no way do they determine our future.
You are in control of your own destiny. Trust your gut. Seek wisdom from others when you feel lost.
Remember that you are not alone. You have a strong support system in your life. Utilize it wisely and become the independent woman that you can be proud of.
I will continue to keep you in my thoughts and support you as best as I can. Your daughter knows that you love her. She does have the right to protect herself from your father.
Please look into NAMI if you feel the need for professional support. I understand that you don’t have an unlimited budget. NAMI can help with that issue.
Take care.
He’s doing that to manipulate you into pressuring your daughter .
My mother in law does that to us . She even makes comments about how my kids don’t call enough or visit ……and says it with an attitude towards my DH and I , as if we are supposed to do something about it .
She is and always has been a controlling person . And her way is the only way . I learned early in my marriage never to tell her much and now I don’t answer all her questions about my adult children either.
It’s all about being nosey and controlling.
My husband’s grandmother tried pulling that crap with her daughter. My MIL didn’t tell her anything that was personal.
Oh, she pushed but didn’t succeed in getting her way.
If boundaries aren’t set in place, these types of women would be steamrollers and roll over everyone in their path.
I am projecting here but if there is ANY possibility that he abused her in ANY way then her reasons are valid.
Let her have her reasons and let her tell you the whys when she is ready but k now she may never be ready.
I doubt she will ever tell me exactly what happened but he is the type who mistreats people with his words and actions. All she has ever told me is that she does not think he is a very nice person. I'm thinking she either saw him do something or heard him say something when she was younger that was so bad, it affected her relationship with him. I know that I have heard him say some awful things over the years.
Your words are so true! I'm a protective mom and you are right, I must see us both as individuals and not mother/child because she is grown now. I have always told her that she can tell me anything.. good or bad and hope she tell me exactly what is on her mind concerning him when she is ready.
You are correct! I'm much better at setting boundaries because of this forum! It has been a HUGE help. I thank you for your kind words because I try my best to be open and engaging here. I posted this question because I like to hear from others who may have experienced the same issue. It is very helpful to feel that you are not alone. I come from a community that believes that you take care of your parents no matter what so it is hard for to find people to talk to, but I have learned that we all have to have boundaries because if we don't, we will drive ourselves crazy. My main concern is my daughter. My father has lived his life.
Also, let your daughter know that you respect her privacy, which in my opinion is equally as important.
I am really glad to see that your daughter understands that you are not a reflection of your father.
I am sure that it hurts her knowing that you were a victim of your father.
I do feel that your daughter is fully aware of what happened with you and is wisely protecting herself from your father.
You don't.
There is no situation for you to handle.
Your daughter doesn't want anything to do with your father. That is completely separate from your relationship with either of them.
The only thing you need to do is let your daughter know that you're there if she ever wants to talk about how she feels. And if you do that, you mustn't make excuses for your dad's behaviour. Your daughter is allowed to feel how she does and to make decisions for her own wellbeing, even if they aren't the decisions that you would make.
Yes, I have spoken to a therapist. But can not afford to see one as often as I need to. My main goal is protect my relationship with my daughter. She did see a therapist when she was younger because she had a hard time dealing with my mom's death. I just want her to be happy. She is my heart.
It quite amazes me you are so much better at all that.
When I see your post now I think it is a "protective Mom" post. I think you are just trying to help your daughter not have to go through all you went through with second guessing and questioning yourself. I think you are just wanting it all to be a bit easier for her.
See some of my answers to others below.
I think you should just talk to her. Let he know you aren't thinking about him. He is reaping what he has sown and he will soon be gone, and better luck next life. But you are concerned for HER and how she feels. And if she ever wants to bounce how she feels off you you are ready to listen to it.
Know it can be tough. She may tell you she feels you didn't protect her enough from who he is. Or that she actually hates him and wishes him gone. Or that she has thought it out best she can and is as certain as she CAN be.
Having a daughter you love is to me the biggest blessing of my entire life. My now 62 year old daughter is now at times my wise woman. And there's not now anything that we cannot discuss together. It took forEVER to get rid of the mother/child thing, see one another for the individual human beings we are. But wow, is it ever SWEET. It's what I will wish for you.
And hey, that therapist thing. GREAT. I have had THREE over 8 decades. Each contributed to helping me through and I am grateful. But a BAD one can be worse than nothing. So get good recommends. I quite like the ones who shake you up until your teeth rattle. It's like the only way I personally seem to be able to "get" anything.
Our opinions are always coming out of speculation, I think, don't you. We don't know the people involved. In the case of FaithfulBeauty she has been here a long time and evolved and such great ways and I think she is open, engaged and engagING.
I think when we "speculate" we give people food for thought. Sometimes I remember to tell them that if what I say doesn't fit the situation they should just kick it to the curb. Someone else may have got it right.
I think Faithful SHOULD engage with her daugher if daughter is open to it: "Like, hon, I get some of the reasons you choose not to engage with Dad, believe me. My concern isn't HIM; he's about to meet his maker. It's you. So I will ask you to consider whether or not you think it will bother you in future when it's too late, and he's gone. Or whether you feel pretty confident in your decisions?"
I think that opens the doors for the child to say "I hate him quite honestly. I'll never miss him" or "I don't know Mom; can't know. Doing the best for me now". But it it is a loving and honest choice and the people involved open and loving I cannot see the harm.
Peggy Sue, we were ASKED this question. We didn't make it up from thin air.
If you have addressed this matter already, please forgive me. I haven’t read all of the responses.
Have you spoken to a therapist?
When I say therapist, I am referring to someone who specializes in dealing specifically with trauma related issues.
I truly believe that you would benefit from a non judgmental objective assessment of this situation.
We are answering your questions from a different perspective than a therapist would address it.
Make a commitment to see a licensed professional for an extended period of time. This isn’t something that can be handled in just a couple of visits.
Let us know how you are doing. We care.
Also, don’t impose any of this on your daughter. If she wants to go for therapy herself she will. If she doesn’t, then that is her business, not yours.
Your daughter is an adult. Treat her like an adult.
Now, if you suspected anything wrong when she was a child, then it was your responsibility to protect her from your father and also to take her to a therapist when she was young.
Know how fortunate you are to have a relationship with your daughter.
My advice is worry about yourself and not your daughter.
It’s a fact of life that when some people die, it’s a great relief to others. Guilt has nothing to do with anything.
You yourself overlook your OWN trauma in favor of dealing with this man! Which is your choice, of course, but to now try and involve your daughter in the FOG is unbelievably unwarranted!
My mother was only ugly and rude to her grandchildren. There was no history of trauma to where they wouldn't even call her. I MYSELF suggested they stay away and not visit her because of her ugly behavior! Why would I want them exposed to such a thing? Of course, they were adults and in charge of their own decisions anyway and didn't need me to give them free advice. I just wanted them to know there were no expectations from ME for their involvement with mom.
I'll say this: If my daughter was THAT horribly against seeing my father, I'd have probably been arrested for assault in demanding the truth out of him long ago.
Sorry to be blunt, but this post is over the top, imo.
Just read your response to Barb.
Your daughter has absolutely no reason at all to feel guilty about not visiting you, if that is what she wants to do.
She didn’t cause any of this. She definitely shouldn’t be placed in the middle of it. She doesn’t have any desire or valid reason to visit you as long as your father is involved in your life.
I wouldn’t worry about your daughter in the least. She sounds like she is a very smart woman.
Be respectful of her choices. Be grateful that she is self motivated. That is an excellent and admirable quality.
You came up with a wonderful solution. You visit her. You have a relationship with each other. You both win.
Your father doesn’t get a vote because he doesn’t deserve one. Nor, is he deserving of any explanation for why his granddaughter (in name only) feels.
I wouldn’t tell your father a thing. Why go there? Neither, you or your daughter, owes him anything. Nothing, zip, zilch, nada.
Your relationship with your father is between you and he. It has absolutely nothing to do with your daughter.
Your daughter has respected your decision to have a relationship with your father, but she is entitled to view your decision however she wants to.
If this man were anyone else but your father, how would you feel about him? Would you go out of your way? Nope, you wouldn’t.
Actually, you don’t owe him anything just because he is biologically related to you. Still, this is your choice to make. It certainly isn’t mine.
I wish you and your daughter well. I don’t wish your father any harm. I certainly hope that he is remorseful for the pain he has caused.
I hope that he will never cause you any further harm. Personally, I wouldn’t give him the chance to hurt me again.
People handle these situations in a way that works best for them. Some forgive others but don’t allow them to have a place in their lives. Others don’t forgive.
I don’t feel like there is a one size fits all solution to these issues.
Please know that you can walk away anytime time you want to.
You are right. She did not cause this. He did and after being told about his attitude, he continued. He did apologize a few months ago but I do not think he has ever apologized to her. He told me that he was sorry if he ever did anything to hurt us but so much damage has been done.
Tell your Dad what goes around comes around. You reap what you sew. He was a nasty man who treated his wife and child like dirt. You can't treat people the way your Dad did and does and think people are going to come to u with open arms? Your father is delusional and needs to be told bluntly he is a manipulative abuser. He is lucky you do as much as u do for him. His granddaughter does not want to be around him because he is a nasty. You need to tell him the that. He brought this all on himself. I don't see why you have to avoid telling him the truth. He owes you and everyone else a sincere apology for being the b*****d he was. He needs to do it for his soul.
Live your life as you see fit and please allow your adult daughter to live her life as she pleases.
I can’t imagine telling my adult daughters how to live their lives. They are quite capable of making their own decisions.
She doesn’t owe you or her grandfather (in name only) any apologies or explanations.
I don’t understand why this should even matter to you. I do feel that you should respect your daughter’s decision not to visit him.
There isn’t any good reason for you to be concerned about her not visiting your father.
Nor, should you speculate that she will regret her decision. I don’t recall ever regretting not seeing anyone that I didn’t want to be around.
Nor, do I understand why your father would even expect your daughter to visit considering his past behavior.
"My fear is that she may regret not visiting him if something happens to him."
And so what if this happens? She will work through it and move on with her life even if you can't get past it. And it hasn't happened so why waste emotional energy on it?
Why doesn't HE contact HER? Sounds like he knows he's been a jerk so maybe he should call and leave an apologetic voice message. If he has been a jerk to her, then your fear should be that HE will pass away and regret not apologizing to her. Why isn't this how you posed your question? Or maybe he still thinks he's a saint but your daughter doesn't discuss her issue with you because you are aligned with "the enemy" (in her mind)?
He has tried to contact her but she does not answer his calls or texts . I posed my question the way I did because I'm concerned about her. I know my daughter. I just did not want her to have any regrets. Me not wanting her to have any regrets does not mean I'm on his side.
If it is sexual abuse, be aware that it is punishable by law. And it should be.
You may feel guilt or sadness of the rocky relationship you had with him. Your daughter can’t make this right or be the daughter you maybe weren’t.
My mom wanted me to go in and see my dad in the casket, I said no. She said, she was worried id regret it. Honestly no she was trying to manipulate me into it, for her self not for me. Not that you are but I don't regret it. And your daughter might not either. Also people her age have to make mistakes.
Best of luck with your dad!
I'm definitely not going to let anything cause tension between my daughter and I. I came to the realization that neither she or I caused this situation.
Thank you!
I’m glad my adult children know how to make boundaries . Perhaps they learned by my mistakes , or they learned when they saw their mother finally learn to make boundaries .
My children do not see my mother in law because she interrogates them about their lives as if she is entitled to details and she badgers them for great grand children . They both got fed up . They call her twice a year that’s it . They no longer will drive the 3 hours one way to spend a whole afternoon face to face .
He also interrogates her which is why when she has come home in the past, she avoids him.