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Last year my husband suffered a stroke and lost more than 25% of his ft brain. He moved his mom in with us 5 years ago and not by my choice. We almost were divorced over it. We moved into another home for her and he worked like a dog to pay for everything. When his stroke hit we lost all our income and then just like that I was caring for him and FORCED to care for her. Changing 2 adult diapers. I was advised multiple times that I needed to call SS or call an ambulance to come get her. Finally one day realising I could no longer pay for food ( I can't work due to having to be home 24/7 ) Having my boy cry cause he was hungry that I just could no longer do this. She was sick and needed care and we called an ambulance. They wanted to send her home 3 days later and I removed myself from any correspondence regarding her. I have my husband talk to anyone and explain that I was NEVER her caregiver I only helped and that he could not take care of her and that his brother needed to step in, who is single no children and able. I AM SCARED out of my mind that something terrible is going to happen to us. That the hospital or SS will MAKE me take her back. I just can't! I have to get a job, she's not my mom. I have children. My husband will be going to a SNF soon for awhile while if not permanently. Do I have any responsibility to this woman according to the law?

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Mrtrbill, Lymie, Disgusted, JoAnn, etc.... thank you all so much for responding! I said I was getting forgetful, and I just realized I hadn't gotten back for answers to my question - had just put the whole thing on the back burner. Unfortunately, it won't stay there, and the other shoe could drop any time. Both the hospital SW and my mom's SW told me there was no state guardianship here; why do they say these things? Do they really not know? So I looked it up, (thank you, Disgusted), and of course there IS; will just back off again and let the SW, DR, and RN work it out, since I am not, and will/can not be, POA. You guys just got me off the ceiling - again; sometimes it's just too much, isn't it?
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sorry for the situation.  YOU are NOT responsible for taking care of her......it was HIS mother.....not yours.  And as far as I know, I don't think anyone can make you take her back.  You need to refuse due to the circumstances.  I am not sure why your hubby paid for his mothers care.........he should have been using her money OR he should have applied for Medicaid for her.  Never use YOUR money to pay for someone else.  Speak with an office of aging department or social services and explain situation.  You can't be home taking care of 2 people and not have an income.  YOU need to take care of YOU right now...........refuse to have her come back.........and hopefully your hubby will understand......(otherwise you might end up in the same situation as him)........wishing you luck.
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I really understand your predicament and hope you can feel empowered by my words.

NO One can make you take your mother in law back unless you let them. A spouse nor his wife can be held legally responsible for caring for an adult for whom they do not have legal guardianship, not even a POA. Just because you called an ambulance does not mean that they can discharge her into your care. Use the words “unsafe discharge“ to get your point across. Hospitals cannot just put people in cabs and send them back to wherever they came from but some hospitals do it if they think they can get away with taking advantage of people who don’t understand their rights. Tell the hospital you will NOT take her back into your home under any circumstances and explain why and that if they do so, it’s an unsafe discharge and you will call law enforcement to help you if necessary. Tell them to instead call her relatives and/or Adult Protective Services (Office of Public Welfare) in your state.They will act grudgingly but they have no legal choice. They will contact you and try to shoehorn her back into your home if they can. Explain your situation, tell them you will not allow it and be on guard that they may make a finding of neglect against you. If they do, appeal it. You don’t want that on your record in case you need a background check for a job. Give them the names, addresses and contact information of all the other relatives and let them contact them while your mother in law waits for placement in the hospital. Don’t call and plead with them anymore yourself.

Get your husband in SNF and go on the internet and look for local employment agencies to help you find a job. Go immediately to your local food bank. They will help you. You can apply to social security because if your husband’s disability. You can apply for food stamps and a slew of other things. Reach out to friends who know more about government benefits and can help you.
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Imho, it's IMPERATIVE that they don't bring your MIL back. Unsafe discharge from hospital to home. Prayers sent.
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Do you know how your husband feels about his Mom going to a facility? I am hoping that after his stroke, he will be supportive of decisions that you make. You have new responsibilities now plus you said you need to find a job. I pray that all goes well and that he will trust your judgment. That sure helps. Good luck to you.
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DON'T TAKE HER BACK IN YOUR HOME tell them it's unsafe like the other's say
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no you don't simple
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...it duplicated my response Grrr.
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Call 211-- get help from the county eldercare advocates... they will help her pay down and get help paying for an assisted living facility-- there is usually one per county that take those who are beside themselves. Go to the facility and they will also help-- make sure you eat lunch there to check out the food.
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Nope, Nope. Lagally in the U.S. a hospital is required to discharge into a safe environment. You must describe your home being an unsafe discharge location, steep stairs etc.

The hospital floor social worker normally finds a Skilled Nursing facility (SNFs) into which discharged patients are admitted and the social worker can also submit an application to the state for Medicaid Long-term-care coverage, meaning the Social Worker normally handles most of the work.

You can participate in choosing her SNF location; BUT the facility ultimately decides.

In the meantime start researching Skilled Nursing facilities, so you know what's available. AND, since everyone in the U.S. eventually lands into Medicaid, think about finding a facility that has both private and Medicaid patients/residents.

SNFs that take both private payments and Medicaid payments are typically the best type of facilities, they keep-up maintenance to appeal to private payers, while maintaining Federal minimum standards, to pass yearly federal inspections.

HUSBAND:
Your husband needs an SSDI application to be submitted. If he was working when he experienced the stroke, and had been paying FICA taxes thru a documented payroll system then he is eligible to apply for SSDI, Medically if your husband is unable to use one arm and one leg, then he fits qualifying parameters for SSDI.
Look thru his medical records for the term Hemiparesis, or the more debilitated term, Hemiplegia.
And look online for the Social Security BlueBook, SPECIFICALLY its Cerebral Vascular Accident (CVA) aka "stroke," section.

More precisely, if your husband has lost use of one side of his body, his medical records will state that he has hemi-paresis. Which typically qualifies him for SSDI since, he matches the following SSDI parameter:
* "the inability to control the movement of at least two extremities (either an arm and a leg or two arms or two legs), despite at least three months of treatment. Which results in extreme difficulty in the ability to balance while standing or walking, to stand up from a seated position, or to use the arms."

Another SSDI parameter focuses elsewhere (post-CVA cognitive functioning)is described, as follows: "Marked physical problems along with a marked limitation in any one of the following:
*thinking (understanding, remembering, or applying information)
*interacting with others (social problems)
*finishing tasks (problems with concentration, persistence, or speed), or
*regulating emotions and controlling behavior (such as problems with responding to demands, adapting to changes, and being aware of normal hazards).

You have lots of options to help everyone get situated.
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You have too much on your plate. No one can take care of two adults in a compromised state. You need to talk to an elder law attorney and senior council advisor. The social worker at the hospital must understand that you are unable to care for her as well as your husband. Sometimes the business office in the hospital can also be helpful. Your mother-in-law needs to be assessed for whether she is able to live independently or can do the regular daily living skills as well as her medical status. Then, it can be determined where she should be living. The other side of the equation is what her financial status is and whether she gifted you and your husband any money in the last five years. All of that can be figured out. You don't mention the age of you, your husband, and your mother-in-law, but you do mention your son (who sounds young). But it sounds like you need to get control of your present and future regarding an active life and work opportunities. Get professional advice to move forward.
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You don’t really have but one choice just in my humble opinion. That is to contact social services ASAP and get that ball rolling. Don’t waste time either if you are serious about not being able to take care of two adults. You need to focus on your spouse and your livelihood and his Mom will need to go to a facility. It is just as simple as that.
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Your profile is a little confused, likely because you are juggling too much. Assuming maybe Mary is MIL and hubby is 48?

For MIL, keep that wall up - do not let them bring her back to you. If she is sent anyway (I've read some comments where a person is sent home in a taxi!), refuse to accept her and send her back! Let the SW deal with this - it isn't your responsibility. POA only allows one to step in as the person's agent to sign documents, manage finances, etc as if they WERE the person, but it does NOT mean one has to provide the care. It doesn't.

In either case, if your husband is disabled, you can apply with SS for disability pension. He can't work, so he should qualify easily. Suggest you call the local SS office, as you can have a long wait with the main 800 number.

I had to sign up as rep payee for my mother (dementia) and it was not difficult. It was well before the virus, but they should be able to process this by phone if they are not doing in office appts. They set an appt for me when I called, I did NOT have to bring my mother with me, they did NOT look at anything I brought with me to show I was paying her bills, etc. They asked a lot of questions, filed the request and later I received approval. The only requirement is to file yearly report, but it can be done online and isn't too difficult - they don't really ask for details, but keep good records anyway, in case they ever ask! I lump her small payment into the housing/food category, and SS plus pension doesn't even cover half of the fee for her MC unit. They did question this last year, but I set them straight - the woman was 96 at the time, in a wheelchair, little to no hearing, losing eyesight and dementia. She isn't likely to take any vacas, doesn't go shopping, I provide whatever she needs that the facility doesn't provide and the rest of the fee from a trust we set up for her.

Once approved, the first payment is sent by check. To get electronic payments, you would have to set up a special rep payee account that only you can access and should only have his SS funds in it. I find it best to write checks from that account to make needed payments/purchases, so you have a little documentation (vs cash withdrawals.)

You may need to seek some legal advice (EC atty.) Many will do initial consult for free, and there may be some who will work with you either low fee or pro bono, since you don't really have income. Have all questions prepped for each consult (try several attys) and take notes. They should be able to advise you on how to deal with MIL, if the SW is not helping, and can help ensure you don't become impoverished if hubby needs to stay in SNF and/or get on Medicaid himself.
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In the UK you are under no legal obligation to look after a member of your own family so wouldn't have to look after your husband's mother either. It sounds like a nightmare for you. Please let us know what happens.
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No you do not.
Your husband was tge Caregiver and now he can't.
Juse make sure you do not accept her back in your hime. The Hoslital will call Social Services and find her a place to live.
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I'm going to preface this by stating I'm a Nurse who used to work in Case Management. So I'm going to keep this factual...

1st the only person who would have any legal authority over your MIL would be 1) herself if she was deemed competent to make medical decisions, 2) If not competent, then a legal guardian or spouse. That's it!!!! So no you don't have a legal responsibility to her.

I'm going to assume she was deemed incompetent & her husband is either incompetent as well or died, hence why she was living you. Basically you need to state to Social Worker/Case Manager that she is an unsafe discharge & you are requesting she be placed in a nursing home. Now in terms of who can make that decision for her depends on what state you live in. I'm in NYS & this decision would go the the Family Decision Making Act, but basically in order of preference (Spouse, Adult Children, Parents, Other Family Members then Close Friends). So again I'm assuming based on this that your BIL is her next family member who should take MORAL responsibility for her. Give the Social Worker/Case Manager his #/Address so they can contact. Hopefully that will be then end of it for you.

BUT if your BIL doesn't step up to the plate, then the Hospital may reach out to you to help with applying for Medicaid, etc...

Yes you can ignore them as you have no legal obligation to her. But keep in mind that "it goes to the state" as another commenter stated is NOT A QUICK PROCESS. It can take months for a Hospital to obtain legal guardianship over your MIL to place her into a nursing home & get Medicaid set up. And it case anyone was living under a rock we are still in the middle of a pandemic in which she would be taking up a needed Hospital bed.

The NICE thing to do would be to help them with any finianls needed to apply & get her placed. No one at the Hospital is going to judge you for not being able to take her back. You have your plate full & its now the BIL moral responsibility to step in.

On a side note if she has plan Medicare & 3 Inpatient nights and a skilled need (physical or occupational therapy need) She can be placed much faster. A managed Medicare (ie, Advantage plan w/Blue Cross, Aetna, etc...) the 3 day requirement is waived. If she already has Medicaid she doesn't require any qualify stay & can be placed. Also if she already had Medicaid the Hospital can bill it while waiting for placement (it pays little, but better then nothing). If she doesn't have Medicaid & deemed medically stable for discharge but no where to go, she would be changed to Custodial Care. This can be challenged by Medicare beneficiaries. But if upheld, the financial burden only goes to MIL's estate. You can not be billed & are not responsible for this debt. In this case I'm assuming her finances are exhausted. This debit will be back billed to Medicaid once obtained.

Hope this helps!!!

-Carol RN
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WWiggins Sep 2020
I'm not sure if it helps her...I believe it should though...but you've definitely helped me! I'm having to deal with something very similar to her situation. So I want to thank you for replying to her.
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You will have your hands full taking care of your husband and son. I suggest you start finding a good facility where you can move you MIL to. Most hospitals have social workers who can help with placing your MIL. Check with your county's Medicaid office if she doesn't have the funds to pay privately. You simply can't care for two adults, one child, work at a job and care for yourself as well. If her other son will not take her, placing her seems to be the only alternative for you.
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disgustedtoo Sep 2020
Even without the actual care of MIL, OP has enough on her hands to care for hubby and family AND try to find a job. Let the state step in and THEY can apply for Medicaid. On top of that, if OP doesn't have any POA, can she even process Medicaid paperwork? Even if she could, she has enough to do - let the SW do her job and refer this to the state for guardianship.
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Just a little note about social workers - - they may be EMPLOYED by the hospital because they ARE a social worker, but they are LICENSED through the State. The hospital may encourage them to push a certain desired result, but the bottom line is that the SW must follow the RULES of social work or they could lose their license. The rules don't always match the hospital's wants or needs. That's why you have to use words like "unsafe discharge", and demand to coordinate with a SW who is at risk of losing her or his license if they only follow what the hospital wants them to do.
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Screennamed Sep 2020
Hi CarolLynn, Some U.S. states don't require a social worker to be licensed. It's horrible when an unethical person is employed in a social work position, for sure, when that person acts unethically and even worse when illegally.
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Firstly you need to be convinced yourself that you are not legally or morally responsible for your MIL. Once you are clear about that you will be assertive enough to deal. Then be consistent and don't be defensive - no one can force you to do this. You have enough on your plate and the stress is too much for you and your family.
The able bodied brother in law should be referred to as the appropriate person, whenever decisions need to be made. The pressure is too much for your husband too. Don't waiver and stick to your guns. Good luck!
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Discuss this with the Social Worker as Taarna has suggested.
They might also the application for Medicaid move a bit faster in a situation like this.
You also need help with / for your husband.
Is your husband a Veteran? If so the VA might also be of help.
Not sure if I got the info right in your profile, looks like your husband is 48 that is young. I do hope he has had rehab..if not that might be something you would want to push. If he had rehab and if he needs more you can discuss that with his doctor.
Getting back to MIL...any care that is paid for should come out of any funds she has not yours.
Also if your husband is compromised it may be better to let the state become her Guardian if he can not do all that needs ti be done for her.
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Please talk to social services at the hospital. let them know your situation and that you do not have resources to care for your MIL. They can not force you to take her. They will have her placed somewhere on Medicaid. The reason I suggest talking to social services is that they may also be able to direct you to resources to for your situation with your husband as well.
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Yes to the "unsafe discharge" strategy, which will mean that a hospital social worker will be assigned to her and the county will pursue guardianship (and get it). They will find a facility for her and take care of all her needs. Your husband and his family will be able to visit her anytime they want, they just won't have any say in her care until she passes. You just need to take care of YOUR self, and your immediate family's needs. Go to sleep with a clear conscience.
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Sometimes letting the state take over IS THE MOST LOVING THING to do!
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Your son who is crying is your first, second and third responsibility. Everything else takes a back seat. If you do not take care of your son who is crying, you are guilty of child abuse.
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Chellyfla Sep 2020
Say what??? She is not guilty of child abuse!
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Did you sign any legal documents, such as medical power of attorney, agreeing to be secondary agent if your husband couldn’t or wouldn’t serve? If so, then you may be legally responsible and should consult an attorney to help you invalidate the document(s).

Hospitals and care facilities often will lie to you and force you to take the patient, despite it not being the best care for the patient. As others have said, they want to push the responsibility onto you. They will tell you that they are discharging her to force you to take her. I had a situation where the LO was in serious jeopardy and the hospital said she needed 24/7 care and should be temporarily put into a facility but discharged her, despite me telling them that I could not provide 24/7 care! I was ignorant about the system, picked her up, and had to find resources for her, which I did. Now I know! Tell them she cannot return to your home, explain that your husband is incapable of providing her care, and give your BIL’s information to everyone every time they contact you.
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Lymie61 Sep 2020
While Guardianship gives one a legal responsibility for the care of another Power of Attorney (POA) and MPOA I don’t believe do. They give one the ability to act on another’s behalf but not the legal responsibility. Now that doesn’t mean there isn’t a built in moral responsibility perhaps but even with back up MPOA, which would have been smart, I don’t believe this poster would be in trouble legally.
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My heart breaks for you. No one should have to bear this burden alone. You have received good advice here; get your brother involved, in addition to a social worker. Keep us posted when/if you’re able.
💘😘💗
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Tell them about hubby's stroke and current situation where he can no longer care for her because he can't even care for himself right now. Give whoever calls the phone number of the other son and tell them he is next of kin at this point. Refer all phone calls about her care back to the other son. You might also let brother in law know that other arrangements must be made - you have nearly lost his brother, you lost his income and struggling financially, and he will have to make decisions about her care at this point.
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Tell them that it is UNSAFE DISCHARGE if she is sent to your home.

No explanation needed. It is UNSAFE to Discharge her to your home.

Repeat as often as needed.
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This is a crises.

Everything for everyone has changed.

One of these changes is Mom needs a whole new care plan including new living arrangements.

You will need substantial help & I hope the Social Worker attached to your Husband's care can be of real assistance to you.

Priorities are you, children & husband. Your MIL cannot be the responsibility of your husband at present. This will pass (unofficially) to her next eldest adult child as usual Next of Kin order until any other legal arrangements are made.
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Your plate if full with your husband. Under no circumstances take your MIL into your home again! Once you do, you are stuck. Hopefully you will get the help you need sooner rather than later. Have you gone to Social Services to get some help with things like food? You may also want to reach out to the Salvation Army and Red Cross to see if they can help or at least point you in the right direction.

There should also be a social worker at the hospital who can help you with placing your MIL into a facility, along with helping you get Social Services that you need for basic survival.
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