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Literally the actual POA has a few "social visits" per year and has not helped for several years.
I live with the LO, and provide all care. As things progress, I'm feeling like not having POA is going to cause some challenges. I just wondered if others have had a similar situation.



Talking to the person with dementia is pointless. Talking to the POA is out of the question.

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I'm going to assume that at the least you are named as the successor durable medical power of attorney agent and the other person is the primary durable medical power of attorney agent. Let's start from there.

A DMPOA agent has a legal fiduciary responsibility to make healthcare decisions for the person who made the POA according to the terms of the POA itself and if the person isn't capable of making them. If there is a primary agent, you as the successor have no power to make these decisions. You are right when you say that not being the primary agent is a problem.

You should look at the POA document itself. If it says that should the primary agent refuse to act as agent then the successor agent will take their place, you would be able to serve as the primary agent.

If the primary agent is a difficult person to deal with check to see if your state has power of attorney certification forms that validate a successor's powers if the primary agent refuses to serve. I highly recommend that you also consult with a trust and estates attorney to make sure you're protected. I can imagine the primary agent arguing that they have been serving even though they have not.

Suggestions, not legal advice.
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Financial POA means that you look after the assets and medical POA means you get to make medical decisions such as agreeing on treatment options, neither obligate anyone to hands on personal care. Yes, being the hands on caregiver without having the authority to spend their money for their care or to make medical decisions when you are the one on the spot is going to be challenging unless you can count on the POA to back you up - is there more to your story you'd like to share?
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BurntCaregiver Jul 2022
cwillie,

No one should ever agree to such an arrangement.
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You do not give any info so I will take a stab in the dark....
And a few questions for you as well.
What are you doing that the POA should be doing?
Stop doing what you are doing and direct all concerns to the POA.
You could send a letter to the POA as well as to the lawyer that drew up the papers and ask to be removed as POA if you wish.
Any financial decisions...direct to the POA
Any health decisions....direct to the POA. (next time you go to the hospital, doctor direct them to contact the POA)

Why is talking to the POA out of the question?
As I said a bit more info would be helpful.

Are you getting paid as a caregiver?
Are you living with the person you are caring for OR is the person you are caring for living with you? By that I mean do you own the place where you are living?
What would happen if you told the POA that you are done caregiving and gave a week notice that you were leaving?
This might actually require a conversation with the attorney that drew up the papers to begin with. Is the primary POA actually doing what they are supposed to be doing?
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WHO is the other POA? Is this a problem between siblings?
If you do not wish to give care any longer notify the POA the point at which the LO must leave your care. Without a care contract and deliniation of expenses, expectations, you are correct that you are up the creek with no paddle.
Does LO have dementia, or can she/he change the POA to you. Do you understand all that being POA means? It is an onerous task with accounts and accounting and meticulous record keeping.
What exactly is the POA now managing? Is she medical POA as well? How is it that she was appointed POA but you the caretaker? Is your LO living with you or are YOU living with your LO. I am hoping the latter, because if you took in your LO without POA and without care contract then your home is now her home. She is a tenant whether she pays rental or not. This is her home and you will be unlikely to easily get her out of it.
See an Elder Law Attorney for advice and to learn your options.
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The POA is basically about making financial or legal decisions. It has nothing to do with being a caretaker or providing hands on care for the LO. POA does not require someone to visit in the home either, unless some legal task needs to be handled locally.

Is there something specific that you want/need the POA to do? Like list the house for sale or sell the car?

I kind of think you wish you had more 'caretaking' help from this other person. This post doesn't really seem to be about POA duties. You have to keep in mind some folks will never step up to the plate for a caretaking job. And many don't really understand why you would do it either. Some folks think if you reach a point where you can't live alone, it's time to go to the NH. Others feel a sense of duty to care for their loved ones. Who's right and who's wrong? - all depends on which decision you can live with.
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BurntCaregiver Jul 2022
my2cents,

The POA is performing their duties.

-There is someone living in the home providing caregiving services to the person they have POA for

-The utilities haven't been shut off so the POA is taking care of the bills too.

They're doing their job. They aren't obligated to provide hands-on caregiving themselves for the person they have POA for.

If the OP wants more help then they have to make some demands to the POA. If these demands are not met, they need to walk away.
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Sandy5691: Since you cannot speak to the principal, who has dementia and the agent "does not contribute in any way," perhaps you can speak to an elder law attorney regarding the issue.
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What if the POA #1 is only worried about losing any inheritance by putting the LO into care and will not negotiate on the matter and the OP is the hands on caregiver?
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BurntCaregiver Jul 2022
That could very likely be exactly what's going on.
No one has to work for free and caregiving is WORK.
If preserving assets and inheritance is the POA's goal, then they can come and take over the caregiving for the "loved one" themselves.
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I don't mean to sound harsh or unsympathetic to your situation. Please forgive me in advance if I do.

If the person who has the primary POA is making sure the bills are paid and makes sure the the person they have POA for is safe and being properly cared for, then they are correctly executing their duties as that person's POA representative.

Your "loved one" is already receiving care. The lights, gas and water have not been shut off so the POA is making sure the bills are paid too.
They are upholding their end of it. Whether or not you like being the sole caregiver to your loved one (and none can speak a word against you if you don't), is besides the point.

The POA has made sure the "loved one" is being adequately cared for, and their finances are properly looked after. They're doing their job. They are not obligated by the duties of POA to provide caregiving themselves to the person they have it for.
Although, in most states a POA is supposed to see the person they represent at least weekly.

If you do not want to continue caregiving, you can bring in homecare to assist with some of it or even all of it. Or you can move out and the POA will have to make other arrangements for your LO's care needs.
You also have a right to be paid for your caregiving services. It does not matter if you live in the house and don't pay rent.
Free room and board is not considered a fair exchange for 24/7 live-in caregiving services. In fact, it is not even legal.
Submit a bill to the POA and tell them that you will vacate the premesis by a certain date if your salary requirements as the sole caregiver are not met.
Or tell them that you will not be caregiving for your LO at all anymore and willnot be vacating your residence. Make him evict you if it comes to it.
You have rights too.
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I can easily see how this could happen. If one person's limit is 'social visits' due to whatever reasons: live too far, work full time, are a pro golfer, just don't want to.. and the other POA is there, doing the hands-on, everyday because: they live close, they have more free time, they just want to.. It is not going to get split 50/50.

If 2nd POA LIVES together with the care recipient well then, abosultely they are going to be doing the lions's share. The whole pride of lions' share.

I'm not sure what the main issue is?

That Caregiver #1 should become POA #1? To align life with reality. To make all bills, arrangements easier? This makes sense to me.

Or for POA #2 to provide more care? Be more hands-on?

If resentment is growing, it is wise to re-assess the plan.

What I usually say is;
The plan has to suit ALL those IN the plan.

If this is not working so well for you, how would you like it to change?
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One option might be to talk to POA1 about the problems that many other people have faced where the POA isn’t in close contact with the person needing care and doesn’t appreciate the spending needs. POA1 might be able to resign their own office, leaving you as the last one standing. It would be good to get a quick local legal advice on this, you don’t want to invalidate the whole thing. Getting the person with dementia to make a new POA is NOT an option.

Another option might be to come to an understanding with POA1 that your advice will be accepted unless there is a serious disagreement on a major issue. Then the routine things can go through quite smoothly.
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bluehallie4 Jul 2022
My brother who is POA for our father does sweet bugger all. A few phone calls to me to check if dads ok, and a visit on Father’s Day or Birthday and Christmas with his entitled insufferable wife, is his limit of contribution. I’m an enduring guardian., we don’t have a POA2. So is it up to the POA to have the final
say about care options?
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