I’m heartbroken.

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I’m heartbroken.

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Yesterday I went to my mothers to try and help her with some things and was going to take her to the bank today to try and figure out some issues she was having with the loan on their property. My moms birthday was also yesterday she was 93. So a little back ground. 12 years ago my brother was basically homeless and he had burned every bridge. I took him in but we couldn’t keep him with us as we were struggling at this point in our lives. So my mom didn’t want him there, but finally relented and I took him over to her place which is 2.5 hours from everyone else in the family. My dad shortly after was diagnosed with cancer and my brother of course took him to Drs appointments and many times we were told to stay away because things were to difficult there. We all sent money and tried to help from a distance and would go do work around the property and not go inside and stuff. So my brother has been there for 12 years. My mom Pays him also provides him a cabin to live in and food and internet and such. So yesterday I was trying to help my mom find out information about this loan as I’ve begun paying this loan and things just don’t add upon looking I found out that my brother is on both bank accounts and she has written him checks for upwards of $1,700 a month. My parents have nothing except they were both getting SS and they have cabins that they were renting out until COVID hit. I do not think my mom realizes how much she is giving him but it’s more than I make in a month but I’m paying this loan payment regardless. So yesterday my brother who has been in his cabin all day shows up to eat (my mom still cooks for him) we had offered to go get dinner since it was my moms birthday. He didn’t want that so he came up to find something and she started cleaning off the table for us. My husband had taken our 14 year old son with him to get the food. My brother tells her to stop cleaning off the table that he wasn’t going to be staying. I was there helping her and I said to her he said he’s not staying. She said well I still need to move these for us to sit and eat. So he said angrily don’t do that I’m not staying. I said she’s cleaning it off for us she’s fine and she had set a basket of bananas in the floor. He says oh that’s right I can’t say anything in my own home and started to storm out. My mom was like what is going on. He said I asked for you to stop but I get over ridden. I said she was clearing it off for us. He said mom knows I eat a banana every night yet she moved them. I said I didn’t hear you say anything about wanting a banana my mom said me either he told me to shut up or he would shut me up.( He has a history of violence) I said I’m calling the police he said you won’t live to make that call. I said leave this house now he said it’s my house. I said you live out there this is moms house. I called my husband to come back and he did but he didn’t want to stay because my brother has my moms shot gun with him out in the cabin. I couldn’t leave my mom like that she kept making excuses for him like always. There is so much more to this than I can even get into right now. I said mom there is no excuse for him getting so mad over a banana. I know she is dependent on him as he is dependent on her. A few weeks ago he texted me saying he needs a poa so he can take over things. My mom has some short term memory issues but she is sharp as a tack. I told him then that we would both be on a poa and I wouldn’t go against moms decisions or wishes because she can still make decisions for herself. He told me then we have a problem. I said nothing more about it to him. He says he wants to sell the property and he needs to obtain a loan to pay off the property and to live on until it sells. My mom says she wants to give him $50,000 when it sells. I said mom there are laws you can’t give him that kind of money because when you go into a nursing home Medicaid will look back 60 months to see if anything like that happened.

Elder Law Financial Planning Medicaid Lookback Relationships

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Wishing you peace in your decision. It's the only sane thing to do.

(((Hugs)))

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Lfrownfelter,

Thanks for your reply to my post.

It’s truly sad that your mom is in denial about your brother. You’ve made the correct decision to take a step back.

I wish parents wouldn’t feel as if they must take care of their ‘lost sheep’ when they are adults.

I know a woman who always says, “We have to look after our lost sheep, as Jesus did.” Her son has wrecked havoc in their lives.

No matter how many times I point out to my friend that she is taking scripture out of context to suit her narrative, she argues with me, so I stopped trying to guide her into the right direction. Sadly, she is going to have to find out the hard way that enabling her son will backfire on her.

She also doesn’t understand why her other children who are wonderful children are frustrated with her tolerance of their brother’s behavior. It’s so sad when parents become blind or are in denial.

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Frownfelter, I’ve just read your replies and thank you for coming back and letting us know your plans. I’m so sorry for your pain in this, knowing it must be so very hard to see your mother in this position, even if it’s of her own choosing. You’re definitely doing the right thing in withdrawing all financial support, please don’t feel any need to explain your reasons to the family, as no justification is necessary. Stopping the financial help, which really isn’t help at all, will serve to hasten the situation coming to an event that forces change. Many here, for various reasons, are waiting on such an event in order to be able to see needed changes with their loved ones. I hope you’ll see it too and wish you peace during the wait

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I said I didn’t hear you say anything about wanting a banana my mom said me either he told me to shut up or he would shut me up.( He has a history of violence) I said I’m calling the police he said you won’t live to make that call. I said leave this house now he said it’s my house. I said you live out there this is moms house. I called my husband to come back and he did but he didn’t want to stay because my brother has my moms shot gun with him out in the cabin.

I am sorry, I read it as though he has the shotgun right there, and he would "shut you up", thinking he would take the shotgun...

Ya, I would not allow my mom to live like that. call APS...

OR, don't...

This situation is just beyond...

I agree... no POA...

FIDUCIARY --- YES... LET A LAWYER HANDLE IT. get information.. think about it.

Good luck... That's too old for mom to continue with a shotgun in the house under the finger of a son who has a temper...

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Just my humble opinion, but we are talking here about a man who is, according to the OP, likely using drugs, and who is definitely in possession of firearms he is brandishing openly. And to my knowledge, the mother who is harboring him and taking the OPs handouts of money (which is quite beyond my ability to understand) is not mentioned as demented, tho I may have missed it in this long post.

I would not be involved with that group whether in terms of visiting, arguing about bananas or giving money. I would report them to APS. If APS isn't finding any problems that's fine. I would move on and away with my own life.

That's just me. The last thing I would want with this group is a POA or guardianship.

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My mother is not at all demented. She is well with in her right mind. She is just being manipulated by him. He is a narcissist and a liar. I could tell you stores that you wouldn’t ever believe someone would believe, but she does. He claims he was exposed to radiation when he was in the military (he was enlisted for 4 years, was never deployed or went over seas. I know this because I was very close to what is now his ex wife) he claims that because of the radiation he has a rare form of diabetes. He also claims he has PTSD because of other things that are far fetched and ridiculous. I found out today that he was taking her to the Dr to get the medical poa. He doesn’t take drugs but he is very mentally unstable. I have decided that nothing I do will change my mothers mind I have begged, I’ve told her all the things he’s said and done showed her texts that he sent me, but she has made her choice because he’s there that’s her reasoning. So I will no longer make the payment I was doing it because she gets such a small SS check and there isn’t anything left after bills for them to live on. I was trying to be helpful, but I am just being an enabler for this to continue.

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If brother pulls out a rifle..
THATS ABUSE.
how many times does he do that to MOM? Maybe more times than you realize..

when was the last time she saw a doctor, well check, etc..

mom needs to be in a safer place..

look up a POA.

im not sure about fiduciariers.. but it’s time to talk with a good lawyer if you know of one..

my friend has a fiduciary for her sister.. mentally not stable. Sister has to ask for money and a darn good reason why she needs it.

I don’t know anything about these people etc.. look into it.

it sounds like brother want an excuse to use his shot gun.. that may be enough to put him in a facility..

another thought.. take Mom on a vacation.. and to an attorney for advice on POA. Brother is not stable..
get mom safe..
what does your hubby say?

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He didn’t pull out a shotgun I asked if he had her gun she said yes he does because they live in a rural area and have issues with stuff I guess. So that’s why she let him have it. He told her that they had changed the law and he can have one now. She believes him no matter what. I am washing my hands of it. He has a hold on her that I can’t break. As much as I love my mom I just can’t do this alone. I have my whole family my other brothers that are older and nieces, nephews, sisters in law that are saying ok you go do this and we’re behind you but none of them are willing to go with me and to tell her. They say they want my crazy brother to still think they are friends and that way he will trust them. So I told them all today I’m done being the only one that goes and confronts him she tries to get her to leave there. My brother goes to the VA for care but can’t get disability even though he makes all kinds of ridiculous claims about the time he was active duty for 4 years. We had a party at my nieces house for my mother’s birthday on Saturday and I tried and tried to get her to come home with me and we would spend time together she said she couldn’t because she is to old. She turned 93 on Monday. So I went there for her birthday. We were having such a good time until my brother showed up and got mad.

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As long as your mother is still mentally competent, I don't know what APS is going to do. She always backs him up, so I'm sure she would in any interview with APS.

As long as she keeps gifting your brother money, it could be a problem if she were to qualify for Medicaid placement in a NH eventually. Are you willing to become her 24/7/365 caregiving slave if she can't get Medicaid for a penalty period?

You aren't going to convince your mother of anything. The way things are going, she is going to lose everything to your brother. Please explain why YOU are paying on HER loan?

How often do you go to her house, and what do you do for her when you go there? I hope you can come to the point where you stop allowing both of them to take advantage of you.

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Yes this is exactly what I have concluded about APS. She will say she is paying him for being there. The only thing he does is buy groceries and take her to the Dr. Yes I told her I would quit my job and take care of her. I have told her that she will not get Medicaid if she keeps giving him money and when she sells the property which she’s been saying she’s going to sell it for 15 years she feels like she needs to give him $50,000 of it to start a new life. I said well then you will be living with me and that’s fine with me. I’ve always been a caregiver in one aspect or another. Home daycare, Paraprofessionals with autistic children so it will be fine with me especially to have time with her. I am paying the loan because she only gets $1,309 a month in SS no retirement or anything. After my dad died last year the income dropped drastically because of losing her SS that was $700 a month and now she gets what was my dads which is the $1,309 a month. With that loan payment and regular bills and such I was hoping to give her some peace of mind so she didn’t need to worry. She had sold part of the land just a few months before my dad fell and then ended up passing away. So she paid for the majority but of the funeral with that and myself and several other family members gave her quite a bit of money to help counter that cost and to help with a head stone. She doesn’t seems to know where that money went but I could see it plain as day to my brother for “groceries” and to pay him. 🤦‍♀️ We go every other month no one else hardly ever goes because of my brother but we still go. I help my mom while I’m there by cooking cleaning just talking to her we laugh and have a great time. That’s what we were doing on Monday before my brother showed up. He always says cutting crappy things to her and I try and not let it get to me because she says she doesn’t hear him. Monday was much different he came at me said I was rude because I said she’s fine she’s clearing off the table for us to eat. We used to take her and my dad for a drive and to get ice cream. He loved it. 😢 I am washing my hands of it. I can’t do this anymore and unless more of my family is willing to go confront him I’m done.

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Daughterof1930 said it well..

Get the legal papers done ASAP at a lawyer’s office .. this is vital.. make sure you tell lawyer of brother s intentions. My SIL kept having her mom sign new POA s .. which meant BIL had to take mom back to attorney to fix… the lawyer finally put a clause in stating that for it to be changed , it required two drs to sign off on her mental stability…..

your brother is looking to steal.

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LF, most Interests can't tell squat about cognitive function unless they do a formal assessment like a SLUMS or a MoCo. It's like the pediatrician telling you that your kid's hearing is fine because they can hear jangling keys.

Your mother's JUDGEMENT. and REASONING ability are diminished. It's why she wants NO change.

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I understand, my moms Dr thinks for 93 she is a wonder that she amazes him. She still does everything except drive.

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Why in the world are you paying your brothers loan? You are too involved in all of this, she will not change he is her "Golden Boy" you are her servant.

This is all crazy, you are dealing with toxic, self centered people.

It is you who needs to change, back out of this situation, live your life, you will not change their dynamics, ever.

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Yes I have made that decision today that I can no longer do this. I am letting the chips fall where they may. It’s my moms loan it was hers and my dads property and log cabins they built and rented out.

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Nothing in this scenario will change unless you make changes.
If you bail out your mom and or brother you will continue to do so until you need a bail out as well. Why put you and your family in financial risk. (You are also teaching your kids, grandkids that it is ok to make poor decisions cuz someone will help out)
No one is POA so mom can make all the poor decisions she wants and your brother can continue to manipulate her until he is done with her, sells her property and kicks her out.

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Yes that is exactly the conclusion I’ve come to as hard as it’s going to be I’m not going to be the enabler anymore and I’m not going to be there paying the bills and be treated like I do nothing. If she can’t make the payment let it go back to the bank sell it like you’ve said for the past 15 years. I have begged them to sell and move away from the lake and come closer to me and everyone else. She won’t ever leave she is attached to that place which I understand and my dad is buried across the street so I think she won’t ever leave.

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Elderly vulnerable moms so often think their sons walk on water, and will defend them , unfortunately ,sometimes to the death ( either the sons or their own) . This is a horrible tragedy waiting to happen. You MUST be strong and brave and call APS and request that they do a tandem unannounced well being visit with the local police department and report that he, as a convicted felon, has a gun....He surely is already on their radar, but they may not be aware of the extent of the danger in the home. You are loving your mom by protecting her...yes, she may not forgive you ..but you need to stop paying any more money or loans .IMMEDIATELY. Sometimes Medicaid can grant a waiver of the look back if you take steps now, and there is elder abuse .which of course is happening. It must stop NOW and you cannot handle this on your own safely. Keeping you in prayer....

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Ditto..

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Can you anonymously get Adult Protective Services involved? it sounds like there might be some elder abuse on his part. also, the gun part is scary too. APS can sometimes be a moderator.

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I think she would deny she is being abused or anything. Sadly I think I’m going to have to let it go and once she gets desperate enough then I’ll be there to take care of her.

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I don’t mean to be rude but your story boggles my mind. The only thing that matters is the your mother’s safety.

Since when does your brother have the right to call the shots? People who feel entitled, like your brother does, will always try to gain control.

No one should cave in and give him what he desires. ‘Keeping the peace’ attitude never works out well in the end. So what if your mom gets angry with you.

You may as well allow her to become angry. She will get over it, and if she is as sharp as you claim, she will thank you later for protecting her.

In fact, focus on the fact that you are looking out for her best interests and push anything out of your mind.

Right now, she is too emotionally attached to your manipulative brother.

Once she has some distance from him, hopefully she will be able to see things more clearly.

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I agree I just can not to this alone anymore. I have lots of family saying you go do this you’re the only daughter she will listen to you, but she is dependent on my brother. He’s is dependent on her so there is nothing I can do except wait for things to crash down and I’ll be there to take care of her. I am enabling this situation to continue by paying the loan payment and I will have to stop even if it’s hard because they won’t be able to pay all the bills and eat. 😕

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Do not pay the loan. You are just burning money.

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I’ve decided I can’t pay it anymore. Hopefully she will forgive me and one day I’ll be able to care for her.

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my guess is he on drugs along with everything else

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No he is not on drugs he’s just unstable but my mom can’t see it.

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DO NOT PAY THE LOAN!!!! As others have written , call APS. Your job is to protect your mother. Your brother is a convicted felon, He should not be anywhere near your mother.

Stop throwing money at this mess and think about your own old age.

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I don’t think APS will do anything because she will say she gave him the money and that he’s not mentally abusing her.

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There are times in life when you have to disregard what someone "wants" in order to keep them safe

Yes, your mother may never forgive you. That may be the price you pay to ensure her safety.

Will you be able to forgive yourself if he kills her? Kills a neighbor?

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I don’t think he would kill my mom or a neighbor only that he might kill me because he got so mad at me. I’m not going to pay the loan anymore. Nothing I do is going to change anything so once things get bad enough then maybe she will listen to reason.

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My advice would be to call APS and tell them what you have told us.

I do not think it advisable to serve as POA here, nor to share POA with someone who so easily pulls a gun.

As to your own funds, if you are independently wealthy then that's fine; but if you expect to have anything for your own elder years I would reconsider investing in this family dynamic in any way.

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Independently wealthy people wouldn’t waste money like this!

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Your brother is mentally ill.

Do you understand that?

As long as your mother chooses to live with and enable her unrehabilitated, convicted felon son who is not getting treatment apparently, you have no standing or ability to keep her safe.

Please call the authorities (APS).

And stop paying the loan.

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It seems that the brother is evil, not mentally ill. Most mentally ill are not violent criminals.

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I’m sorry this has become such a mess. Please know a few things are true—your mother has chosen your dysfunctional, user brother to defend and provide for to her own detriment. Next, she is no longer capable of making sound, rational decisions or she would at least see the situation for what it is, even if she chooses it. As it is, she’s living in an unsafe environment with a bully. Her cognitive skills are likely more impaired that you’re realizing. If this were my mother I’d take her, without brother’s knowledge at all, to an appointment with an elder care attorney to have her much needed documents and wishes planned out legally, minus the input of brother. Tell her nothing of it so he is not tipped off, once there she can meet with the lawyer on her own so you cannot be accused of having your way. The money spent will be well worth any cost. I’d also consider if mom is living in fear of loser brother if a call to Adult Protective Services may be needed at some point. I’m sorry your mom has chosen this path. My dad relentlessly defended my barely functional sibling and it did a lot of damage. But I did get dad to a lawyer and he received sound advice that helped us both enormously. I wish you well in this, it’s very hard

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Amending my thoughts now that I’ve read your further updates. Please call Adult Protective Services as soon as possible, like tomorrow morning. Your mother is in desperate need of protection. And do not give another cent of your money to this situation. Though you have a good heart and are trying to help, the help is actually hurting as it’s causing the brother to be enabled further in his abuse of your mother. Please act before something even more awful happens

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There is more to this but basically I don’t know what to do anymore. I’ve begged her to come live with me I wanted both of them to come live with us. She wouldn’t because where would he go. We went last year and stayed to take care of my dad before he died. I fed him cleaned him and much more. My husband helped so much too, but it’s hard going there to help because other than going to buy groceries and drive my mom and my dad around he did nothing the property fell into disrepair and we would come try and clean up and do things he wouldn’t show his face. We left last night because we didn’t feel safe but I’m not sure how to get my mom away from there. He is so toxic my whole family sees it but they leave everything up to me as far as going and doing anything. We paid a lot on and planned my dads funeral last year. I tell my mom I don’t want anything I just want her to come live with me. I know she is attached to that place because they built it together my dad and her she doesn’t want to leave I just don’t know what to do. I do tell my brother I appreciate what he does and I’ve sent him money and tried so hard to take stress off of him. He has 3 children that he hasn’t seen in years because of mistakes he made. He also robbed a bank and was in prison for awhile. He is a habitual lier and tells things to make himself look important. He can’t hold down a job and when he came to stay with me he was being evicted of course not his fault according to him, but my husband had just retired from the military unexpectedly and we had moved back home to OK from ND. We didn’t have a place for him but we took him in temporarily. I feel bad for him but he has no one to blame but himself. He even lied after my mom took out a loan when he was living there and sent him $3,500 to help him but he didn’t find a job and he told her he still had most of the money only to tell her it fell out the door on our way to take him there. She believes everything he says. I just don’t know what to do.

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Stop bringing your kids around your brother. Keep them far far away from him. Never put them in danger, even if that means they can no longer see your mom.

plus this whole family dynamic is likely traumatizing as hell for your kids.

“What? We need to go back to grammas because uncle bob is about to shoot mom?”

please don’t do that to your kids

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Why are you paying on a loan your mother has (or your brother)?
DO NOT put your or your family in financial difficulty to pay off someone else's loan. (unless you want to pay off mine)
Am I to understand that you and your brother both have POA?
If your mother is cognizant she can make whatever changes she wants to make. If she is not cognizant then no changes can be made.
If your mother is competent she can make whatever decisions she wants to make. If though you think that your brother is taking financial advantage of her that should be looked into and a call to your State's Elder Abuse reporting number should start an investigation.
If you are POA and have been acting as such to allow financial abuse to happen is a problem.

I am not even going to get into the rest of the convoluted story.

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I’m paying the loan because she gets 1,300 a month to live and the payment is. 865 right now because of veritable rate loan. We don’t have POA I didn’t not know my mom was giving him so much to money she says for groceries and to pay him. She hardly eats anything so I’m thinking it mostly going to him. I think he has a gambling problem he is so secretive. He scares me but I can’t get my mom to leave I begged her yesterday she said she can’t. I told her this was elder abuse she said no he helps me. All that while looking at weeds waist high and my husband trying to find anything to start trying cut them down.

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Leave.

Call Adult Protective Services in Mom's area and report her as a vulnerable adult who is being financially abused.

Be sure to mention that the abuser is a mentally ill family member with firearms.

Stop paying the loan. Immediately.

Only the State has the means/authority to fix this problem.

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My heart is broken because I know she will never forgive me she has always protected him for some reason. Our dad died when I was 15 my dad I was speaking of was my stepfather that I adored and loved so much. He loved me and now I think my brother might have been mentally abusive to my father when no one was around.

I’m heartbroken.

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