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You’re asking the wrong people that question. This site nor its members are your caregivers employers. It appears your dad is her employer so you should be discussing this with him. It’s his decision whether this is allowed or not. Keep in mind the caregiver has specific duties and is going have downtime so I hope you don’t expect her to be busy every second of her shift.
My wonderful neighbor has an independent, and when the whether was better, I would observe her spending what I thought was inordinate amounts of time either smoking or talking on the phone. Now she comes out and sits in the car instead of walking around the back yard.
In that case, there’s always family present so I’m thinking they must know that caregiver isn’t with her client for extended periods of time.
I’m guessing that this s between family representatives and caregiver.
Is this possibly a night shift and caregiver is struggling to stay awake? I ask this because I do know someone who has night help come in and she did have one caregiver who curled up with a blanket/pillow and expected to sleep while on duty. This was not OK and should have been cleared up ahead of time. A different overnight caregiver she had also struggled to stay up all night, but would find things to do once her official duties were completed and her patient was asleep. I'm sure it's possible she was on her cell phone some of that time, but it was also obvious that her job-related things were all done.
I am uncertain what you have the caregiver for? Is she there to do certain tasks assigned? Or is she more or less a "sitter"? Does she work through an agency? Have you discussed this with her? With the agency? Are there tasks going unaddressed? I am just thinking for myself. I am a very private person. Were I to need a "sitter" I would prefer she play games on her cell phone rather than attempt to "be my friend" while there. You do, however, describe this person as a "caregiver" which I assume means she is there to give care. You can't do that while playing on the phone. What have you done to address this?
My parents live in a small apartment and their is a security camera. My mom is the one who needs care and she has dementia and my dad is controling and has an independent caregiver which is not through the agency. My dad thinks she is good for my mom but I see that she is always on the phone when sitting and bossy and eats their food and I have been cooking alot for my parents and my dad is always worried about the aide having food too. I do not know what the guidelines would be ?
Laura, your Dad should have worked that all out with the Caregiver before she started on day one, maybe he did.
I hope there is a Contract between your Dad and the Caregiver which states what are her duties, cost per hour, if meals will be provided, etc.
I can understand how you feel. Whenever I stopped by my Dad's house and see the caregiver sitting on the sofa watching TV with my Dad, I was thinking shouldn't she be doing some chores. When my Dad said how much he enjoyed having the caregivers [he had 3 shifts each day] and how nice the house looked, I stopped questioning. If Dad was happy, I should be happy, too.
Address you concerns to the one who hired the caregiver. The caregiver should have a contract that outlines duties, pay and issues like the one you mention. You should only intervene if you see something that places the person they care for in danger or if the one who hired him/her (aka "boss") also has some dementia that impairs ability to deal with an employee. If the "boss" can no longer manage the "employee(s)," please make sure to have financial and medical powers of attorney. Otherwise, you could possibly have a legal battle.
Personally, I think when you are 'at work' your cell phone should not even be answered and definitely NOT 'played on'--put the cell on silent and during breaks,. check and QUICKLY return calls, if they cannot wait.
I realize I am an old fogey (64) and when I worked in CG, my cell phone was pretty dull---had barely any 'apps' on it. BUT, it was turned off and in my purse and I never EVER played games on it or texted people.
I am very aware of my kids and their kids and their lives completely, seemingly unable to live w/o checking to see what ELSE is going on in their worlds....
This is a situation that is here to say, so if someone were caring for MY LO, I would set down some pretty set rules. If they are there to clean, bathe, tidy the house, feed my LO, then they would have a busy day with no time for personal calls. IF they have long periods of 'down time' when there are no expectations except for BEING there, then, yes, probably something to help pass the time would be OK.
It's going to be different for each scenario. Bottom line: IS your LO getting the care they're expected to have? Do they get along with the CG? If so, then just roll with it.
BTW, when I worked elder care, it was for an agency and I was supposed to have regular breaks and never, in the 3+ years I worked did I ever take one. I wouldn't have been on my phone, at any rate.
As a person who worked as a secretary for a Visiting Nurse assoc. I say NO. We had aides and there was a standard they needed to follow. I agree with Midkid, you are at work. Its also her responsibility to engage with Mom. We had an aide that one of our nurses saw reading in her car. When my boss asked her why, she said she was doing laundry (at this apt complex facilities were in attached buildings) and was waiting for them do be done. My boss told her part of the job was engaging with the client. She maybe the only person that person sees all day.
I see no reason why the aide can't get breakfast and lunch together. Joining ur parents at lunch if she wants. I am not a snacker so I see no need for that between meals. If she wants a snack, she can bring it with her. Breakfast can be eaten before she comes to work. There is no reason she can't do dishes that have been dirtied while there. Light housekeeping. Maybe make the bed. She is being paid by the hour, wipe down the kitchen and bathroom. Maybe do some laundry, at least ur mothers who is her client. She should be doing something in that hour. Doesn't have to be back breaking work. She should have breaks and a half hour for lunch.
We had a male client thats wife worked and complained that an outside aide didn't wash the dishes, clean or do laundry. My boss told her that if the client lived alone, this would be part of the aides duties. But since there was a wife those tasks were not part of her care. The clients wife had left dishes thinking the aide would do them. All an aide, in my opinion does it clean up the mess she and client make during her working hours. If that means the client soils the bed or their clothing, its the aides responsibility to wash them not leave them for someone else to do.
No. Absolutely not. They are at work. You will need to set boundries apparently. If you went into a department store or a bank or retail store....you dont see them on the phone playing. I am a caregiver and I see this issue constantly especially with the younger generation. Ask them to put it away while they are there...they may check it on a break just like at other jobs. Good luck
Unfortunately the work ethics of people in 2020 is pretty abysmal. No, she should not be on her phone her entire shift. She is being paid to do a job.
Whomever is the boss needs to put the job description and duties in writing, give her a copy and have her sign a copy that says she has received and agrees to the terms of employment. I would put down that failure to fulfill the job duties will result in termination, giving a verbal warning, a written warning and a termination slip. No notice, fired that day and she can get her check in 3 days or the normal pay period whichever comes 1st.
You may have to advocate for your parents on this issue. Perhaps getting a POA that specifically makes you the final decision maker for caregivers. I think that it is beyond scummy the way some people take advantage of their senior employers.
You are right about there being a lot of "scummy" behavior when it comes to senior caregiving. It is sad that this is how it is. How can it be any other way with how the in-home caregiving field operates? If some employee from an agency is working for ten bucks an hour with no benefits, then clients and families should not expect better quality than what ten dollars an hour with no benefits will buy. Privately employed caregivers always provide better quality care. I always find in any position what works best is when the caregiver does not have to try to 'look busy'. If we're doing our job and your LO is being properly cared for, don't make us justify a bit of free time on the job by having to look busy because we do enough.
Absolutely not and I had this issue with an agency caregiver. She was let go after four days. The agency had a very detailed list of the duties and expectations of the day.
I suggest you keep a log of the undesired behavior and present to caregiver to review together. You should be able to find a detailed list of caregiving duties online to review with the caregiver. Have them sign a caregiver agreement is also a good idea.
I think the answer to the question depends on what the stated, expected duties are. If a caregiver is only there to be a presence, a safety measure for someone, then why not allow them to keep entertained while they are there..? If they are supposed to be doing other things, then that's a problem and I would ask them to do their work first.
Sounds like you may need to clarify the scope of work that you expect them to do.
Only if they are on break, to care for someone requires one full attention. If that caregiver is bored she needs to interact with whomever she's caring for, it'll lift up their spirits as well.
If the caregiver is on the job for several hours and the actual care work only takes her one hour then it's fine to be on the phone. We do spend time with our clients but really what person can be expected to perform hour after hour to keep some client entertained? By the way, it's the family's job to life their spirits and alleviate their boredom by giving them some kind of socialization. We do our best at it, but please don't expect us to juggle fire on a 12 hour shift because your loved one is bored for half an hour. Not gonna happen.
It will depend on what tasks are supposed to be done by the care provider. But, IMHO I feel that the least the care provider could do is to limit their time on their phone to breaks, and spend quality time with the person they have been hired to take care of.
You're right. Independent caregivers do spend quality time with their clients. I find that on jobs with long hours, that the clients usually want some alone time on their own to watch tv or take a nap.
We are not entertainers. People need to realize this when we're hired to care for their loved ones. If that aide is delivering quality service then don't complain if you see a cellphone or laptop come out. I don't know if you've ever been a senior caregiver. Hour after hour it's like watching paint dry or grass growing.
Is your caregiver doing a good job and getting the work done? Is your loved one being kept clean, and well fed, and are they content? If you can answer 'yes' to these questions then don't worry about the caregiver and their cellphone. May I ask you something about your caregiving situation? Is your caregiver on the scene for many hours a day? Are they a live-in? Please let me tell you something about in-home caregivers having been one myself for almost 25 years, that most people don't know when they hire one of us. We are not entertainers. When one of us is on a job hour after hour for some senior with dementia who doesn't even know what day it is, expect to see a phone come out at some point. If I'm working for you expect to see a laptop come out at some point. If your loved one is being well cared for, is clean, fed, and in a clean and healthy environment then if I were you, I would not complain too much to the good, private caregiver you're lucky to have. Here's something else you might not know about us independent caregivers. We do a far better job caring for someone then agency help does because we're working for ourselves.
Also, Burnt, if you read down a bit closer to when OP posted question (several that day about this caregiver) you will see that the caregiver is hired by her father and is caring for the father and mother apparently to their liking. So there are no complaints actually coming from those cared for about this caregiver. So I agree with RealyReal that this is up to "whomever hired the caregiver" to give instructions as to what they want done, and how. The father, if he is unhappy, it seems to me is capable of telling the caregiver not to be on the phone at all unless in the case of a family emergency if he wishes to do that. Then it is up to the caregiver whether he or she chooses to work further for the couple. To me this all looks like falling under "too many chefs spoiling the stew". I think that the OP is trying to manage the care more than her Dad wishes to have it managed. So many choices and decisions are taken from us as we age. If the dad and mom are satisfied with this caregiver then I hope the OP will step away unless she sees real problems occurring.
You are the employer. You decide what is appropriate. If all the tasks have been completed. If the person they are supposed to be caring for is sleeping or other wise occupied then I do not see a problem with the phone. But if the person they are caring for needs help will the caregiver just drop the phone or will they finish the level of the game they are on? If the play on the phone is hindering the job then they should not be on the phone. And you did not mention it but...no photos of your loved one, no photos in the house, no photos of the outside of your house.
Ahh... older middle aged folks complaining about younger people and phones, THE cliche of the last 10 years. Caregivers are not entertainers. If they are doing their caregiving duties, they've done their job.
Never hire independent caregivers. They can claim to get injured on your property and sue the estate, and there are further complications with taxes. Agencies have workman's compensation so they can't sue your estate and handle the taxes.
I respectfully disagree- independent caregivers are some of the best there is to offer. Agency caregivers are always working for a predatory type arrangement ( btw has been discussed here before) the agency charges the family a hefty amount - takes most of it and leaves the poor caregiver with an insultingly low rate for what amounts to the most important work of all— this tends to breed discontent, resentment - apply to any other job and it’s clear if your asked to do 90% of the real challenging work and paid a meager barely minimum wage rate while the higher ups who sit at air conditioned desks profit from your hard work it isn’t good for either party— well mainly it’s not good for the one being taken advantage of and that doesn’t lend itself to being able to provide amazing consistent long term care
Asked yourself is it the phone?? because what if she was always reading? always doing puzzles? always --- whatever. BUT the bottom line you are hiring. establish rules and expectations (in writing), have them sign it; you sign it and provide a copy. Just be sure that they are not unrealistic.
If all the things expected of the caregiver are being done, what else do you expect the caregiver to do -- sit and stare at your LO? I see nothing wrong with being on the phone (and that may actually be looking at things online, not necessarily talking on the phone to people) during the nothing-else-to-do times. If the things expected of the caregiver are not getting done, then the caregiver needs to understand that her phone time comes after everything is done.
My husband wants me with him as much as possible. I can't just sit and stare at him for hours on end. I have been stuck on that couch "being with him" for up to eleven hours straight (three consecutive football games on the tv -- and I despise football). I am thankful for my phone, my tablet, and my chromebook. I can read, do email, facebook, play games, while being ready to meet his next demand.
I agree to that. It is very annoying. A lot of them are taking advantage and not doing there job. Agency who sends them do not care, when I complained. You should talk to the caregiver yourself, what her responsibilities are.
I have 3 different aides who come to help with my wife. My wife is very "needy" in all areas. She even summons me into her room to be near when the aides are bathing, changing, grooming, even feeding her.
As far as I am concerned these aides are her for my wife. As long as she is well taken care of, I don't care what they do (within reason) in her down time. The aides do house keeping, some cooking, preparing meals for my wife and one fixes meals for my 18 YO son when she is there. They let the dogs out, ffed them sometimes. They generally stay busy.
However some days my wife sleeps through an entire shift, or she forgets who the aide is and decides she doesn't like her and won't allow them to touch her. On those days, as long as they are near her to answer for her needs, they can have their down time and use it to play games, post on Facebook and many other things.
I agree with you, as long as moms needs were met. I dud not care what they did when she was napping which was a lot. I had one that asked if she could bring her niece. I was fine with that and so was my dad that did not require care. Dad and the niece did puzzles together.
I would say check with your Dad if he made the contract and see what it says. If there is nothing to do except be on her/his phone maybe the hours should be shortened? In some cases just having the person present as a caregiver so I could leave and do errands or have some down time was enough, I didn't care if they used the phone. However, in some cases they were there for specific needs only and those tasks were to be completed as priority which usually took almost all the time anyhow. Find what your dad is ok with and go from there.
A poster responded that the caregiver is not there to entertain your family member. My response to that is we aren't asking for you to entertain them, but we are expecting you to interact with them. They are people, not things. You are paid by the hour, not by the task. So if I have paid you for 3 hours, I expect you to be doing something for my loved one during those 3 hours.
It doesn't' matter what type of job you have....accountant, doctor, grocery store clerk...your employer expects you to be working while you're on the clock, not playing angry birds on your phone. People have become so rude with their phones. I actually joined a friend for breakfast one morning and she whipped out her phone and started doing something and I just stared at her until she put it down. I have seen couples out to dinner and they were each on their phone instead of talking or interacting with one another. it's rude and it's sad.
I've gotten off course here, but bottom line is you have hired this person, therefore you get to set the rules.
You hit the nail on the head. The cell phone generation seems to think it's ok to be on the phone while being paid to do a job. As more of these folks move in to mgmt positions, so it becomes the norm. It was my biggest pet peeve just before I retired. An employee addicted to their phone and meaningless messenging is getting paid for hours they are not performing for the employer. In essence, they are getting a fringe benefit of 'time off work' that others don't get. Same as arriving to work late every day. Even it it's 5-10 minutes a day, that comes out to 30 minutes to an hour off work that I didn't get. It comes down to work ethic - you were paid to be somewhere at a certain time and to work X number of hours. Just do it.
NO is the answer to being on a cell phone...if they are on working hours with a client the cell phone is a distraction from the job service. 911 should be only thing use for or calling family members of client.
Are they watching the person sleep or are they supposed to be doing something? Maybe they aren't doing enuff? Can they do a load of wash, dishes, fix a meal, or light dusting? What are their duties? If they are just supposed to watch an elderly person sleep for a few hrs after lunch, then whats the harm? But if they are supposed to be doing something, then no. I worked for a home health company. They didn't mind if you were discrete about it, when the person was sleeping, but no posting to soc media you were at work or bored with Mrs C for the eve. I dont do soc media so I wouldn't update something like that. Apparently they had young employees who did. And the clients family looked online. That could get the person fired, bc of the clients privacy. Maybe you can get them to cook or do something if elderly person is sleeping. They might appreciate not staring at 4 walls bored.
My ILs hired 24/7 care because they couldn't be alone. SIL is the day caregiver, and an indy comes nights and weekends.
SIL leaves frequently to go shopping or attend to her personal business at home, and doesn't really keep a strict clock-in. But when she's there, we're assured, she really DOES work (except when she's taking one of her frequent smoke breaks outside). Why the other day, she cleaned off the top of their refrigerator (they have housekeepers). ILs were impressed. They see her as "really working."
The indy aide is always punctual. During downtime, she knits. When they go to bed, so does she. When they ring for help, she's always there. They value her less, frankly, because she only does what they, the employers, asked her to do even though she's doing exactly what they asked her to.
From a human resources standpoint, you should always concentrate on what they are not getting done. If the phone use is interfering with the ability to get the duties completed, then it is a problem. If it is bothersome to you, however, you might want to start a no phone use during shift policy next time you hire an independent caregiver.
At our Caregiving Agency, and excessive phone time is not allowed if it prevents things for getting done or the client has an issue with it (common for some older generations). This is something we address in our orientation/on boarding. In this case, we are the employers so we are responsible for laying out policies and guidelines.
With an independent caregiver, *you*are her employer and so it is up to you whether she should be allowed to be on her phone or not.
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In that case, there’s always family present so I’m thinking they must know that caregiver isn’t with her client for extended periods of time.
I’m guessing that this s between family representatives and caregiver.
I am just thinking for myself. I am a very private person. Were I to need a "sitter" I would prefer she play games on her cell phone rather than attempt to "be my friend" while there. You do, however, describe this person as a "caregiver" which I assume means she is there to give care. You can't do that while playing on the phone.
What have you done to address this?
?
I hope there is a Contract between your Dad and the Caregiver which states what are her duties, cost per hour, if meals will be provided, etc.
I can understand how you feel. Whenever I stopped by my Dad's house and see the caregiver sitting on the sofa watching TV with my Dad, I was thinking shouldn't she be doing some chores. When my Dad said how much he enjoyed having the caregivers [he had 3 shifts each day] and how nice the house looked, I stopped questioning. If Dad was happy, I should be happy, too.
I realize I am an old fogey (64) and when I worked in CG, my cell phone was pretty dull---had barely any 'apps' on it. BUT, it was turned off and in my purse and I never EVER played games on it or texted people.
I am very aware of my kids and their kids and their lives completely, seemingly unable to live w/o checking to see what ELSE is going on in their worlds....
This is a situation that is here to say, so if someone were caring for MY LO, I would set down some pretty set rules. If they are there to clean, bathe, tidy the house, feed my LO, then they would have a busy day with no time for personal calls. IF they have long periods of 'down time' when there are no expectations except for BEING there, then, yes, probably something to help pass the time would be OK.
It's going to be different for each scenario. Bottom line: IS your LO getting the care they're expected to have? Do they get along with the CG? If so, then just roll with it.
BTW, when I worked elder care, it was for an agency and I was supposed to have regular breaks and never, in the 3+ years I worked did I ever take one. I wouldn't have been on my phone, at any rate.
I see no reason why the aide can't get breakfast and lunch together. Joining ur parents at lunch if she wants. I am not a snacker so I see no need for that between meals. If she wants a snack, she can bring it with her. Breakfast can be eaten before she comes to work. There is no reason she can't do dishes that have been dirtied while there. Light housekeeping. Maybe make the bed. She is being paid by the hour, wipe down the kitchen and bathroom. Maybe do some laundry, at least ur mothers who is her client. She should be doing something in that hour. Doesn't have to be back breaking work. She should have breaks and a half hour for lunch.
We had a male client thats wife worked and complained that an outside aide didn't wash the dishes, clean or do laundry. My boss told her that if the client lived alone, this would be part of the aides duties. But since there was a wife those tasks were not part of her care. The clients wife had left dishes thinking the aide would do them. All an aide, in my opinion does it clean up the mess she and client make during her working hours. If that means the client soils the bed or their clothing, its the aides responsibility to wash them not leave them for someone else to do.
Whomever is the boss needs to put the job description and duties in writing, give her a copy and have her sign a copy that says she has received and agrees to the terms of employment. I would put down that failure to fulfill the job duties will result in termination, giving a verbal warning, a written warning and a termination slip. No notice, fired that day and she can get her check in 3 days or the normal pay period whichever comes 1st.
You may have to advocate for your parents on this issue. Perhaps getting a POA that specifically makes you the final decision maker for caregivers. I think that it is beyond scummy the way some people take advantage of their senior employers.
The agency had a very detailed list of the duties and expectations of the day.
I suggest you keep a log of the undesired behavior and present to caregiver to review together. You should be able to find a detailed list of caregiving duties online to review with the caregiver. Have them sign a caregiver agreement is also a good idea.
Keep everyone on the same page.
Sounds like you may need to clarify the scope of work that you expect them to do.
May I ask you something about your caregiving situation? Is your caregiver on the scene for many hours a day? Are they a live-in?
Please let me tell you something about in-home caregivers having been one myself for almost 25 years, that most people don't know when they hire one of us.
We are not entertainers. When one of us is on a job hour after hour for some senior with dementia who doesn't even know what day it is, expect to see a phone come out at some point. If I'm working for you expect to see a laptop come out at some point. If your loved one is being well cared for, is clean, fed, and in a clean and healthy environment then if I were you, I would not complain too much to the good, private caregiver you're lucky to have.
Here's something else you might not know about us independent caregivers. We do a far better job caring for someone then agency help does because we're working for ourselves.
If all the tasks have been completed.
If the person they are supposed to be caring for is sleeping or other wise occupied then I do not see a problem with the phone. But if the person they are caring for needs help will the caregiver just drop the phone or will they finish the level of the game they are on?
If the play on the phone is hindering the job then they should not be on the phone.
And you did not mention it but...no photos of your loved one, no photos in the house, no photos of the outside of your house.
If you want your parent entertained call a clown.
My husband wants me with him as much as possible. I can't just sit and stare at him for hours on end. I have been stuck on that couch "being with him" for up to eleven hours straight (three consecutive football games on the tv -- and I despise football). I am thankful for my phone, my tablet, and my chromebook. I can read, do email, facebook, play games, while being ready to meet his next demand.
As far as I am concerned these aides are her for my wife. As long as she is well taken care of, I don't care what they do (within reason) in her down time. The aides do house keeping, some cooking, preparing meals for my wife and one fixes meals for my 18 YO son when she is there. They let the dogs out, ffed them sometimes. They generally stay busy.
However some days my wife sleeps through an entire shift, or she forgets who the aide is and decides she doesn't like her and won't allow them to touch her. On those days, as long as they are near her to answer for her needs, they can have their down time and use it to play games, post on Facebook and many other things.
It doesn't' matter what type of job you have....accountant, doctor, grocery store clerk...your employer expects you to be working while you're on the clock, not playing angry birds on your phone. People have become so rude with their phones. I actually joined a friend for breakfast one morning and she whipped out her phone and started doing something and I just stared at her until she put it down. I have seen couples out to dinner and they were each on their phone instead of talking or interacting with one another. it's rude and it's sad.
I've gotten off course here, but bottom line is you have hired this person, therefore you get to set the rules.
If they are just supposed to watch an elderly person sleep for a few hrs after lunch, then whats the harm? But if they are supposed to be doing something, then no.
I worked for a home health company. They didn't mind if you were discrete about it, when the person was sleeping, but no posting to soc media you were at work or bored with Mrs C for the eve. I dont do soc media so I wouldn't update something like that. Apparently they had young employees who did. And the clients family looked online. That could get the person fired, bc of the clients privacy.
Maybe you can get them to cook or do something if elderly person is sleeping. They might appreciate not staring at 4 walls bored.
SIL leaves frequently to go shopping or attend to her personal business at home, and doesn't really keep a strict clock-in. But when she's there, we're assured, she really DOES work (except when she's taking one of her frequent smoke breaks outside). Why the other day, she cleaned off the top of their refrigerator (they have housekeepers). ILs were impressed. They see her as "really working."
The indy aide is always punctual. During downtime, she knits. When they go to bed, so does she. When they ring for help, she's always there. They value her less, frankly, because she only does what they, the employers, asked her to do even though she's doing exactly what they asked her to.
At our Caregiving Agency, and excessive phone time is not allowed if it prevents things for getting done or the client has an issue with it (common for some older generations). This is something we address in our orientation/on boarding. In this case, we are the employers so we are responsible for laying out policies and guidelines.
With an independent caregiver, *you*are her employer and so it is up to you whether she should be allowed to be on her phone or not.