Mom in memory care, suggestions for her house?

I have been where ur and taking her home is cruel because she can't stay. I started cleaning Moms house out when she went to an AL. Its time for you and siblings to take what u want, unless a Will says differently. If you want to sell it should be at Market Value unless Moms insurance will pay for 5 yr Medicaid look back period. The proceeds should be put aside for her care. Nothing gifted again because of Medicaid.

Dear "Gracie61,"

I agree with "JoAnn29."

When my mom was diagnosed with Alzheimer's in 2014 at the age of 89, I started looking for an ALF. Once I found one, we moved her in and then I started going through her house to get it ready to sell. I had to sell it "as is" to an investor because the house was built in 1958 and we couldn't afford to have it remodeled. Once she was moved, I never brought it up again nor did I drive her by it. The investor had it completely remodeled and I didn't want to upset her by seeing how different the home we lived in since 1968 was no longer as we knew it. The money I got for selling the house is what I use for her rent and necessities.

My mom is now 95 1/2 and in her second ALF in their memory care wing. She likes her one bedroom apartment and that's as good as it's going to get. Prior to COVID, I would just take her on short drives near the ALF and to doctor appointments but never, ever anywhere near our old neighborhood. I can't even handle it as it was the only home I had known since I was 6 years old when my dad's employer transferred us here from Illinois.

I am currently reading Clutter: An Untidy History by Jennifer Howard. What a fascinating book it is on this subject. About her cleaning out the clutter after Mom moved to Memory Care. Sure do recommend it for simply knowing you are not along.

In addition to having a condo FULL of stuff to deal with, her place was also set up as a Life Estate. It would have been best for all of us had she been able to stay, but that wasn't to be. Trying to extend her stay by bringing in aides to check on her, to increase time and what they need to do as needed didn't work as she refused to let them in.

So, we had to move her and a few personal items. Bros picked some stuff, but she packed a lot up after the move and these are still wrapped in newspaper in a cubby!

Then began the need to get everything out, clean, clear, repair. The extra insurance (beware - many/most ins will NOT cover a vacant house), RE taxes and condo fees were sucking down WAY too much to leave it sitting. We considered rental, but knowing full well it would be only ME taking on landlord duty, nope. Then the repairs started - some are simple, inexpensive, but her heating system died, the glass panes were losing seal and fogging up. It was getting expensive! It took me over 1.75 years to get it all done (was not there all day every day, just several times/week with very limited help from 2 brothers.)

I would definitely look into clearing/cleaning/repairing and selling. She WILL forget the place, esp if you do not take her there. I recommend that you don't take her there. It WILL jog some memories and perhaps make adjustment more difficult or longer. Our mother harped on YB for about 9 months to go back to her condo, and suddenly that changed to the house they sold 25 years prior to that! She's been in MC over 3.5 years now, and during visit the last few months prior to lock down, she hasn't mentioned ANY other home or wanting to go somewhere.

IF her will specifies items to be given to anyone, you can either hold them, store them or give them now. I see no harm, so long as it goes to the person it was promised to. My brothers decided what items they wanted to keep, I didn't want much at all. A LOT of clothing and shoes (!!!) were donated as was some furniture. A few usable but mismatched items we gave to the neighbor for their church rummage sale. Lots of stuff trashed, dumb OB brought a bunch of crap to my house that I didn't want! Have enough of my own stuff to pare down, didn't need her stuff!!

Yes, it seems sad to pick through someone's things while they are still living, but she will not be able to return there or enjoy any of those things. The longer it all sits, the less usable they will become, and meanwhile her funds will be depleted by maintenance, utils, insurance and repairs.

If you find any little items or pictures that might bring a smile to her face, save those for her! Hoping it doesn't take you as long as it did me.

Due to covid, a LOT of doctor/hospital issues are being carried out over the phone, so IF something happened to her, if you have pics of the necessary documents (insurance, POA, etc) on your phone, you'd be able to send those to the necessary person. I'd go start working on her house. It will give you something to do to take your mind off things.

Thanks, everyone. There's just a lot of guilt over how things were promised to her when we talked about Assisted Living and how things are. Really no ones fault, best of intentions for everyone. She had some falls, one serious, covid-19, and her dementia progressing faster than I anticipated, causing the move to Memory Care area from the Assisted Living side.
The virus is probably causing the most havoc, which nobody can do anything about. Not having the in person contact, not being able to bring her to my house for Sunday dinner, her not interacting with her grandkids and great grandkid( which always has been important to her.) We've always been a close family, actively participating in each others lives. Receital - a group us is there, holidays- who is hosting- elementary school event, sports game or fundraiser, she was there plus others. I dont know how the upcoming holiday season is going to play out. I cant imagine her not being at my house on Christmas Day or Thanksgiving. Her 90th birthday is in October......
Sigh.

Gracie, I went through this just a couple years ago. Mom and dad went into assisted living. They didn’t understand that this was permanent but there was no other way. Dad was moved to memory care after mom died.

With two parents in care I needed to sell the home place ASAP to pay for their care.

I was 600 miles away. I started cleaning the place immediately and found a handy man to haul away junk and do a couple fixit jobs.

I got a realtor and had a couple good offers within days. I sold it as is. I wasn’t about to fuss around with remodeling from 3 states away.

Ya know, you feel kinda deceitful but there’s nothing else that makes sense when the funds are needed for care.

Mom died in 2018 and I have since moved dad to a nursing home near me. It’s over $8K per month. He’s on hospice now. He won’t outlive his money but there won’t be much left.

Good luck to you.

First thing to do is get insurance for an unoccupied structure. I found out, too late, that once Mom was moved out of her house her insurance policy was void since an unoccupied house is seen as vulnerable to breaking and vandalism.

as you are not nearby notify the police that the home is not occupied and ask for periodic checks. Ask neighbors to keep an eye out too, stop newspapers And set up a change of address so mail doesn’t pile up. Notify utilities, turn off the water and gas, not electric. Set lights on timers, etc.

I also asked a neighbor to park his truck in the driveway. He was a state trouper and parked his patrol car there sometimes.

A pipe broke at Moms house and water poured out for 3 days! Luckily the village didn’t charge us for the 20,000 gallons of water that poured down the walls into the basement. $5000 of repairs later I still don’t understand way the next door neighbor didn’t call me, he had to hear the shorted fire alarm going off.

All that done, don’t feel bad about clearing out the house. As long as she has things that are familiar she doesn’t have to have EVERYTHING she owns. I rented a storage locker nearby and stored a selection of decor, clothing, and holiday decorations that I used to change out periodically.

You can hire a company to do the clear out and conduct an auction. One word of caution, take the time to go through papers, pockets, purses, etc. I found hundreds of dollars hidden away, important documents under the mattress, canceled checks and bills dating to the 1950's and Mom's Social Security number written on dozens of slips of paper she used to remind herself of the info!

Its been 2 years and I am still selling or giving away items from the house. 67 years of marriage leaves a lot of memories.

Congrats on your mom's financial planning, my parents lived like tomorrow would never happen! We are using the money from the sale of the house and contents to pay for Mom's AL.

Gracie, you should not continue with this insurance agent that gave you such self serving advice.

You should contact an insurance broker and get coverage in place immediately. Then you should call the corporate office of the insurance company and cancel the policy and file a complaint against this agent.

There are only a few companies that insure empty properties, it is a specialty insurance and it is expensive. You can use the refund from her current useless policy to make the 1st payment.

Please follow through with the complaint against this agent. There could be a large portion of the town that doesn't have the needed insurance because the ethics are obviously not there. They need to be stopped, because when you need your insurance is not the time to find out you aren't covered.

I don't understand the guilt. She does not understand what is happening. The longer you wait the harder it is going to be as you get older. Start the process. My husband's family can't agree about anything. All I know is that I am done. I am a full time teacher, mom and wife and my mil has lived with us roughly 5-6 years of our 15 year marriage. I am resentful and she is so miserable and scared all the time. It's easier for me because she isn't my mom. I love her but she is no longer who she once was, it's like going back in time and having a toddler. Most of the time she is fairly placid. Our big issue is with the bowels like mentioned by others and her constant need to know the day of the week and if everyone is going to be home tonight. It is so easy to judge our situation from the outside and say that she belongs in a home and it's not fair and yes some of that has merit, but I also feel guilty not taking care of her. Most cultures take care of their family. It's all just gotten so overwhelming and now it's affecting our 13 year old daughter. My husband's siblings don't help. The older sister calls twice a year and has her friend pick up her mom take her out and bring her back to us. The eldest brother is always looking for some kind of financial gain, never had a solid job in his life, so it's left to my husband and I to do most of the work. His brother takes her every other week but she is not taken care of there the way she is over here. I refuse to leave her on her own for any reason. They leave her ALL the time. Sometimes for several hours. Anyway, if I had my way the house would be gone through, an estate sale company hired, everything sold and put on the market as is. I don't want to money into it because it's going to be completely redone by anyone who buys her. It hasn't be refurbished or fixed up since 2003. It's filthy, full of old clothes and other crap since 1965. The houses go for over a million if done up but we need money now to get her into a home. I feel for you but if you have time to do it on your own terms I would get started. Your mom is not going to know the difference, unfortunately. I feel for you. The positive in all of this is that my sister and I are having these uncomfortable conversations with my mom now rather than after it's too late. Good luck! - Mamabear

Gracie61;
ABSOLUTELY start shopping around for another insurance company. Just the fact that she said this:

"...we dont insure vacant homes, but dont worry about it until you need to renew next year."

raises flags! Call multiple places to get quotes, make sure they fully understand this is unoccupied, compare what is/isn't covered, esp since it is in a hurricane zone. Ask how often they require you to "check" on the place. I was told we needed to, but we also had neighbors to keep an eye on it. Once you insure properly, this other place should refund a portion of what was paid. When all said and done, I would probably call them, ask for a supervisor or manager and make complaint. They shouldn't be doing this to anyone.

When we moved mom to MC, discussion with her ins resulted in the same notice - we don't cover it. Short absences might be covered, say extended vacations, but when no one will be living there, most ins will NOT cover it. No point in paying them if they won't cover anything! What you were told is irresponsible and almost criminal! Find someone else. Generally you would go through an agency that would insure this out to another company that does cover unoccupied places, but your primary contact would be the agency you contacted. At least that's how ours worked.

Also, do turn the water off when you are not there - water damage can be extensive and expensive! Another comment here demonstrates that. My son had to move out of his house when it was foreclosed on (before the housing crisis.) The water was shut off by the company, outside the house. They knew it was, because they stopped by to pick up or check something and the toilets weren't functional at that time. Later, when he got a call about 10k gal of water used, thankfully he had notice that the water HAD been shut off by the water company, plus the bank owned it at that point! Whoever turned it on would have to answer for that!

For anyone with a condo, compare your condo management coverage with what you are paying to cover the rest. When we started shopping for vacant house coverage, the rates quoted were ridiculous! 1k+ for a 2 BR condo, which I knew was partially covered by the master policy. Once I had the contact for the agent covering the master policy, I learned that MORE was covered, including interior, not just the exterior. She told me if there was serious damage, say a fire, they would restore the interior of the building to it's original state. Personal contents, appliances, etc were not covered, but the majority of the rest WAS covered! So, if improvements were made (mom replaced carpet with hardwood, so that wouldn't be covered), those were not covered, but given the major structure WAS covered, what mom had been paying was likely too much. The master policy agent was able to secure a condo policy for us that was almost the same amount that mom was paying, to cover personal, appliances, liability, etc. Clearly the place mom used had no clue (nor did mom or dad) what was covered and overcharged them for years!

So, anyone with a condo, whether your own, your parents', another family member, whether occupied or not, get the details on the master policy and the occupant's policy - you may be paying too much! Condo insurance, for the most part, is like renter's ins - the master policy may cover a lot more than you realize!

Everyone I know who is DPOA for a parent, including my husband, now conducts his affairs over the telephone or, in person, at the bank if only absolutely necessary. My husband's family was also very tightly knit and it's been a huge adjustment due to the pandemic.

I would get the ball rolling on selling your mom's house by calling a real estate agent who knows the neighborhood well. Whichever company comes up with the most listings is probably a safe bet.

Empty homes are prone to decline, and should something happen at the house, the insurance may decline to cover it because it is vacant. There are companies that will insure a vacant home but I would question the value of such a policy.

With hurricane season on its way out, getting a real estate agent on board now will give you an idea of what the house may sell for. You can also find an estate liquidator who will pay for whatever valuables remain and they will clean out the rest. It's a gut-wrenching process, but it must be done.

This is another issue we had. I did go through my moms things. I donated A lot to Goodwill and I also boxed and stored some loved items of hers. I kept the jewelry in case she asks to wear a piece. We stored all the good clothing. I take 14 outfits at a time to be kept at the memory care. Mom now is a bit clearer mentally {Lewy Body has good and bad times} and once in awhile I have to buy something for her because I gave an item away! I am moms POA also. I choose carefully when giving stuff away. She seems ok with the decisions I am making. My mom has been a very easy to deal with 86 yr old...very aware of needing to let go..I am blessed.

If your mom is in memory care, it’s probably best she doesn’t go back to her house even for a visit. I know it seems cruel. Believe me. I know. When my mom was in Assisted Living, I took her home twice. I said I would never do it again. I thought I was doing something nice for her, but, of course, she didn’t want to leave. Leaving was traumatic for her. It was cruel. Now she’s in Memory Care. It took me four years, but I finally sold her house recently. It took me that long to be able to let go. It was difficult to not talk to her about the process, not ask her what to keep and what should go, to release all the things that were so important to her. I suggest you proceed at the pace best for you.

Soon after my sister and I moved our parents from central PA to SW OH, we sold the house (fortunately, an easy process because the next-door neighbor wanted it as an investment to rent out). Although our parents had a healthy investment portfolio, I figured it made sense to get rid of anything that required spending money to maintain (as opposed to investments that generated income). It was obvious neither of our parents would ever be able to get back there again, and although we moved all the furniture, etc. out, we were able to sell it in OH where there were consignment stores, etc., so all the proceeds went to help cover the nursing home expenses. Occasionally our mother would ask about the house, and because me sister and I occasionally visited the area where they had lived, we could tell her that it was receiving excellent care, and people were living in it and enjoying it (which was all true, and the buyer would give us updates). I would tell our mother that the house looks "happy" which seemed to satisfy her.

One can't keep everything, and decisions have to be made based on logic and pragmatism rather than emotion, especially in the case of houses and other large or expensive possessions.

If you don't need the money and there is a chance your Mom might like to go visit her home then don't worry about rushing to sell it.
Take the time to go thru everything and keep and give away what you want.

After doing this, you can always have an Estate Sale and someone will come in and price and sell everything for you and they take part of what they make.

Then you can list the home for sale.

In the meantime, if you're worried about vandalism, install a Security System and or Cameras where you can watch from your cell phone or computer any time.

I do have a question tho, If money is no problem, why not hire 24 7 Caregivers and let your mom live in her own home, where she would be happier, safer and not be lonely and be able to have visitors any time?

This is what is being done for my 96 yr old Dad.

The memory care place is home now, so don't take her back to house at all -- she'll be devastated. I made the mistake of doing that with my mother, and I felt terrible about doing it.

An empty house decays quickly, so I advise selling it sooner than later unless you want to rent it out. Carry your medical POA and your mom's advance healthcare directive with you at all times, so if something happens while you're away, you can communicate with doctors by phone until you can get there.

I would get started. It will probably take longer than you think it will. During our last move we left things on the driveway and put a notice on a Facebook selling group that we had free stuff. It was gone in an hour.

According to your description of where she is at with dementia, I would initiate the sale of the house by going every so often to start clearing out family stuff you want to keep; load up your car with stuff you want your family members to look at and keep or give away. Maybe one weekend every 3 months or so for your sister to help go through stuff. After you take out what you want to keep for family, hire a cleaning person/crew to thoroughly clean the house and put it up for sale. She is not going back. She won't know what to keep or sale. You will have to make those decisions,as her family will have to say what they want. Get the house off your back. You have enough to carry. Believe me, she won't know what you are doing, she won't care. I put all my husband's favorite oil paintings, pictures, do-dads in his room, and he never knew, and he wasn't in memory care, just assisted living. Start the process, find a way. Yes, if she falls you will have to be there. But, I don't know where she is, but my husband's facility wanted a copy of the medical care document, and he was taken to emergency room twice without me being there. They did call me and told me he was going, but I didn't need to be there. Which I got there about the time he did. But with giving the facility a copy of the medical directive, they can initiate immediately what/where to take loved one without delay.
And as for the house, I priced my manufactured home to sell, not to make a profit, but to get it off my back. If I had more time I would have kept for a few years to get a better price, but what would I have to do during that time: pay taxes, keep up outside, not be there if there was a water leak. Not good. I lowered my price again, just to get it sold. Sold right away. And I left the house partially furnished.

The big caveat is that should you sell the house, you may end up losing the sale to the memory care facility or the state Medicaid. Please check with an elderly legal service in your area before selling so that you do not end up giving away the money from the sale.

When you find out about the above, talk to your sister and come to a mutually agreeable decision. Giving things to family members that will appreciate them is wonderful, but you may want to hold an "estate sale" with a reputable seller instead or for the remainder. Many of them will take what doesn't sell and leave the house broom clean.

I don't envy you this chore - my mother has been collecting for 50 years, and the house it jam packed. I dread the day that it has to be cleared out. However, we have talked about this and I know what she wants.

Imho, it's best to start on the sorting/cleaning out process now.

One last note - since mom owns the house, she will likely have to sign the deed. Despite our mom's place being a Life Estate, the EC atty told me I could sign everything else using the DPOA, but that SHE would have to sign the deed. Oh joy... Thankfully the facility has a notary (required to have this since we couldn't bring mom to closing!) AND the notary told me, in response to my query, she didn't need to confirm mom knew what she was doing, she only had to witness the signature. I fluffed it off as some kind of insurance paperwork to mom. I'd had her sign tax paperwork (she was still aware of needing to do taxes at that time, but since then, the tax guy has me DPOA it), so this wasn't too different.

Just warning that you might have to have her sign and a notary witness. Some plausible reason for her signing will likely be needed, so she doesn't refuse.

DO NOT TAKE HER BACK TO HER HOME....She will think she is back home... and that will not be good..it's not good.... she does not need to see what she was taken from.. I did that.
My cousin moved his mom from her home to assisted living. She did not know she was moved.
Dementia and ALZ, is tough. And it's not fun. And it lasts sometimes way too long.

Friend has told parents they need to move to AL facility. Its the right time if anyh time is right, but for them, yes. They have time to go through and sort. and mom is separating things she wants to give her kids, ie gifts or momentos they have given her.. one siblind said she enjoyed receiving the old photos and gifts back. good memories flowing back and forth.
Make it easy as possible and enjoyable too. Good Luck.

one of my friend's siblings and spouse, decided to sell their home and buy a condo. Once they realized that they were responsible to pitch in for ROOFING, PLUMBING, ETC.,,, when it did not concern their inner space, they decided to move out. They bought another home that was a bit smaller, but no nonsense about ASSOCIATION DUES, FEES, FIXES, ETC... I wish I could have told them, I had an aunt who used to work for a property management company... She told me never to buy in a place like that, because I don't have the personality to put up with rules and restrictions. She was right I suppose.
Other people it's fine, everything is like renting, it's upfront, no maintenance because some one else is maintaining it for you. Perhaps I should think about it again. People change, and maybe I have too.

My mom was a hoarder and when she had to be placed in a nursing home due to constantly falling, over dosing meds and leaving food to set for days and trying to eat it, my 2 brothers, niece who had DPOA, my husband and myself, started trying to clean it out in order to sell it. We filled my husbands pickup and a 16' trailer with boxed jars of canned foods and took them to people who had hogs. Then we started on the boxes and barrels inside the house filled with fabrics for quilts, threads, boxes of newspapers, magazines, and odds and ends that we put in burn piles or brought to our homes to picked up by trash trucks. We worked off and on for 2 to 3 months and still couldn't get it cleaned out. We did get 2 refrigerators and one of the freezers emptied. Then people started cutting the locks off of the doors and gates. We boarded up the garage but they took the door off the hinges and then kicked in the front door. Items started disappearing. We talked of selling it but, were told medicaid had a lien on it to pay her extra charges. She was getting to keep $59 a month from her check and the rest went to the home. The lien covered everything in the home and the property. So, we left it as it was. I can't bring myself to even drive by it but, a friend tells me how she sees people go in and out of it with her items. I have contacted medicaid, sheriffs office and now the tax office who are sending me the bill with threats. I have also been summoned to court for overgrown weeds. I took copies of the medicaid info and her death certificate to all of them. Now I am getting letters from a lawyer for her taxes. I set it all aside and since there was no will, I told medicaid and county to fight each other because it isn't mine.
So, if all is paid and her property not being used now, sell it and put the money in a savings account to use for her care if the other runs out. Save ALL paperwork down to picking up a package of tissue for her. Medicaid now wants to collect $127K from me and my brothers. I told them nope, not my bill, not my property and I am out of it.

Your mother cannot come home. I hope you have a power of attorney. Do not tell her - just start taking the house apart and eventually sell it. She will rebel or not remember or cry - nothing will change. She cannot go home. Leave her in the facility - there is no other choice.