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Your profile says your mother has dementia ……..yes it’s common to put things in different places than usual .
At least it’s going in the waste basket and not in the cabinets or drawers, or refrigerator . Maybe leave a waste basket right next to the toilet for her , so she doesn’t start putting it in worse places, hopefully .
Mom may need more supervision in the bathroom soon if she puts her waste anywhere else .
Your mothers brain is broken, so nothing she does should surprise you at this point. Like already said, at least she's throwing it away in the "waste basket" and not just throwing it on the floor. But in all reality, what this should be telling you is that your mother can no longer be unsupervised when she goes to the bathroom. It's time for someone to be with her 24/7 if they're not already.
Other than the answers that have been given I wonder..... Where did your mom grow up? It is very common in some areas in this country, and others, where there is poor or no plumbing (septic or sanitary) systems to put used toilet paper in a waste basket. Some plumbing systems can not handle the paper. So if she grew up doing that it is easy to see how she could be reverting back to doing the same thing.
You need to supervise her more directly in the bathroom. make sure paper products are disposed of properly and that she is cleaning herself properly (including handwashing)
If you read a lot of posts here this is the reverse of the questions I have seen where a parent is flushing everything, clogging toilet and causing overflows. Solution to both is supervision.
Yes, I agree. I know many people still that do not flush... the ummm, no so messy toilet paper. They toss those not messy ones in the garbage can. Especially if they grew up not having city plumbing
My very elderly Aunt with advanced dementia would chew her food then spit it into a napkin and put back on her plate. One napkin per mouthful. The only thing "common" about dementia behavior is doing uncommon things, and it's different for everyone.
It is VERY common. First of all, many of our elders came from other countries where plumbing was unreliable, and this was (and by the way STILL IS) the proper way of disposing of tissue after going to the bathroom. Secondly, many lived in areas where they had septic and some portion of their minds still remembers what could happen with septic. Thirdly many have engrained in their minds the status of years of poor plumbing where the plunger was a member of the family. All of those things together make (especially women) elders hesitant to dispose of lots of toilet paper into the toilet. The "tissue-issue" is often only the beginning of it. In my own city of SF we have had droughts and water saving programs that since the 60s have come up with cute ads that remind us "If it's yellow it's mellow; if it's brown flush it down", and we seniors OFTEN do not flush urine down until there's company at the door (hee hee). So imagine that habit coming with us when the mind's slipping? Just sayin..............
I hope you have luck with retraining, but you may not. Just know this is VERY common.
Plungers should always be part of the family. I can not even imagine not having one in a home, because you can't run out and grab one when you are in need of one, not without a giant mess.
Accompany your mom to the bathroom now to ensure she's not leaving toxic messes behind. Nothing is normal with dementia and everything odd becomes common. It's never safe or wise to leave an elder with dementia alone or unaccompanied in the bathroom where eating soap or wrapping up feces to carry around in her pocket is the new norm.
If you can safely contain and dispose of the waste basket with poopy kleenex, it will be OK. If your mother is carring the poopy kleenex around some, make sure she is washing her hands well afterwards. If you're not sure about that, help her wash up after using the bathroom.
It is dementia. All kinds of behaviors can / do happen. It doesn't really matter how many experience this, too although it may help you to know you are not alone.
What will help you is figuring out how to manage the situation. Is she in a nursing home? Her home? Your home? Do you have regular caregivers coming in to check / work with her? How often do you check the waste basket? Do you need a waste basket in there? (perhaps 'just' keep one in the bathroom next to the tiolet.)
I have known of a client who hid these kinds of things in the closet. See ... it can be worse. (comic relief is important; I am not minimizing your situation).
"If" you take the basket out of the room, see what she might do instead. Perhaps put a camera in her room - ? Perhaps try medication. More frequent visits (you, caregivers) Manage food IN --- to have a clue with food OUT ... to be there before she does this. There likely is then an issue of feces on her hands - ? although you do not mention this. Sounds me to like she needs more constant care / observation throughout the day.
I didn't read the comment, so this may have already been said. But I imagine that some point in your moms life she lived in a house with plumbing issues, and had to do that or was told to by a parent when she was a kid.
My mom always put her peanut butter in the fridge, my whole life. I hate cold peanut butter. Every so often I can't find the peanut butter, I know to look in the fridge because i put it in there without thinking.
Lots of older people still did this out of habit in Korea, since the plumbing was very poor when they were growing up, despite modern Seoul being a futuristic, high tech city. There were even trash cans in each stall to throw the paper in.
Also in Mexico and other Latin American countries where plumbing may be too fragile. You will notice in American towns/cities with high populations of Latin Americans there's often a trashcan near the toilet for those who grew up putting all toilet paper into them to protect the plumbing. For an elder in our country to do that may be a sign of advancing dementia; you'll need a full eval to determine that. All the best.
I remember on a cruise and visiting the government center of Ensenada and looking at the murals. I unfortunately had to use the facilities, and as I delicately bent over to "hover", my face was in a trash can full of poopy tissues. Yay.
Anyway, at home, when my mom fell, I started going over every day to help her, as we realized how bad things were getting. Some days she was completely obsessed with pulling out a kleenex, dabbing her nose, and throwing it down.. She would go through boxes of kleenex and all I would do is pick up her tissues and throw them away, because she would completely cover her TV tray with them.
The other thing she did is what you described. She refused to flush any paper down and usually wouldn't flush at all. When I would first come in the morning, the bathroom floor and bathtub were a sea of wads of toilet paper.
The thing we discovered soon after is that her toilet barely flushed anymore. She was aware, but did care enough to call a plumber. We wound up spending over $10K getting her sewer line cleaned out and the yard dug up to replace the tar paper pipes she had. (They had lived there close to 60 years, and tree roots, etc.) The inside of the toilet was solid grey brown with stuff. Not dirt, but limescale from the hard water sitting for so many years.
Anyway, after 3 months of all this, she was evaluated and determined to be on the line between moderate and severe dementia. She was stuck in a holding pattern of just existing in that house. It was a nightmare. We decided it was time for her to be in memory care because she was just nonlonger present in her own life. She couldn't afford in-home 24 hr care, and her home was not suitable for employees to have as a workplace.
When she was accepted into the memory care facility, which is gorgeous, I was so worried and warned them about how she is with kleenexes, and the bathroom. They assured me they would take it under consideration.
When she got there, she never did those behaviors again. That place was wonderful for her. It was a shock at first, but all the activities and the daily schedule keep her mind so busy, and the supervision and help in the bathroom pushed all these behaviors out of her head. She is like a different person and alive again! It was such a hard decision, but it has been like night and day. She doesn't even hardly use kleenex anymore!
My long a** point is that maybe your loved one needs to get out of their rut. Then you can stop beating your head against the wall too. If their behavior is new and odd, there is something going on and it is serious. My mom was a housewife, and her real self would be shocked and saddened to he her current self as she is, and she would hate to see me suffering through cleaning up her mess like I am. But she's my mom and I the only child. This is not what we planned, but here we are. It's not her fault.
My mother does similar. She obsessively dabs and blows her nose. Tissues everywhere that I pick up and dispose of throughout the day. She will fill her purse up with used scraps of toilet paper she’s used for blowing her nose. I redirect her to handkerchiefs I purchased for her but that doesn’t always work. I had to think of something given how expensive toilet paper is. No pun intended but she blows right through a roll in 2 days.
In many countries it is common to put toilet paper in a waste basket. The reason is the sewer in many countries can not handle the paper. In many cases the system is old. in an odd twist I had to explain to some visiting contractors not to put paper on the floor and to put it in the toilet.
Yolanda50: With dementia at play, these actions that you've described sadly become commonplace. Perhaps your mother requires managed care facility living.
On another note, my mother, who did not have dementia, often put supposed flushable toilet wipes in her trashcan as she had a different kind of septic system. Often those wipes that state they're flushable can and do clog up a toilet.
Llama, those wipes are dangerous, even when they say flushable.
The best way to verify flushability is to put the product in a glass of water and see if it dissolves. I haven't found any that do, so safer then flooded is my personal opinion.
Your mom was very wise not to flush them. Well done mom!
When we had RVs, trailers, and boats, we only put obviously poop paper down the toilet because the holding tank, if it wasn't full, would turn damp toilet paper into cement. I (because it was my job) emptied the trash can several times a day, I tied the liners tight and if we were not near a trash bin area put the little trash bags into a larger one with the top tight until I could dump it. Was your mother a full time RVer?
Have flushable wipes in the bathroom instead of tissues. If it's wet she is more likely to remember to dispose in the toilet, or be less comfortable carrying it around.
Keep the tissues near her bed for facial use only.
Just a word of caution: Flushable wipes are not really flushable. NYC had a massive lawsuit regarding the use of these and in most public toilets today you will see messages indicating not to put them in the toilet. My friend is a plumber and he says more than half of the stopped up toilets he sees are from these flushable wipes.
Maybe when mom was younger she had a home with a septic tank and she is remembering that from long ago. She probably is not remembering what to do with the tp. Very common ....I guess just have to empty the trashcan daily...I am so sorry for you but there are no answers just do the best you can.
By proceeding, I agree that I understand the following disclosures:
I. How We Work in Washington.
Based on your preferences, we provide you with information about one or more of our contracted senior living providers ("Participating Communities") and provide your Senior Living Care Information to Participating Communities. The Participating Communities may contact you directly regarding their services.
APFM does not endorse or recommend any provider. It is your sole responsibility to select the appropriate care for yourself or your loved one. We work with both you and the Participating Communities in your search. We do not permit our Advisors to have an ownership interest in Participating Communities.
II. How We Are Paid.
We do not charge you any fee – we are paid by the Participating Communities. Some Participating Communities pay us a percentage of the first month's standard rate for the rent and care services you select. We invoice these fees after the senior moves in.
III. When We Tour.
APFM tours certain Participating Communities in Washington (typically more in metropolitan areas than in rural areas.) During the 12 month period prior to December 31, 2017, we toured 86.2% of Participating Communities with capacity for 20 or more residents.
IV. No Obligation or Commitment.
You have no obligation to use or to continue to use our services. Because you pay no fee to us, you will never need to ask for a refund.
V. Complaints.
Please contact our Family Feedback Line at (866) 584-7340 or ConsumerFeedback@aplaceformom.com to report any complaint. Consumers have many avenues to address a dispute with any referral service company, including the right to file a complaint with the Attorney General's office at: Consumer Protection Division, 800 5th Avenue, Ste. 2000, Seattle, 98104 or 800-551-4636.
VI. No Waiver of Your Rights.
APFM does not (and may not) require or even ask consumers seeking senior housing or care services in Washington State to sign waivers of liability for losses of personal property or injury or to sign waivers of any rights established under law.
I agree that:
A.
I authorize A Place For Mom ("APFM") to collect certain personal and contact detail information, as well as relevant health care information about me or from me about the senior family member or relative I am assisting ("Senior Living Care Information").
B.
APFM may provide information to me electronically. My electronic signature on agreements and documents has the same effect as if I signed them in ink.
C.
APFM may send all communications to me electronically via e-mail or by access to an APFM web site.
D.
If I want a paper copy, I can print a copy of the Disclosures or download the Disclosures for my records.
E.
This E-Sign Acknowledgement and Authorization applies to these Disclosures and all future Disclosures related to APFM's services, unless I revoke my authorization. You may revoke this authorization in writing at any time (except where we have already disclosed information before receiving your revocation.) This authorization will expire after one year.
F.
You consent to APFM's reaching out to you using a phone system than can auto-dial numbers (we miss rotary phones, too!), but this consent is not required to use our service.
At least it’s going in the waste basket and not in the cabinets or drawers, or refrigerator .
Maybe leave a waste basket right next to the toilet for her , so she doesn’t start putting it in worse places, hopefully .
Mom may need more supervision in the bathroom soon if she puts her waste anywhere else .
But in all reality, what this should be telling you is that your mother can no longer be unsupervised when she goes to the bathroom.
It's time for someone to be with her 24/7 if they're not already.
Where did your mom grow up?
It is very common in some areas in this country, and others, where there is poor or no plumbing (septic or sanitary) systems to put used toilet paper in a waste basket. Some plumbing systems can not handle the paper.
So if she grew up doing that it is easy to see how she could be reverting back to doing the same thing.
You need to supervise her more directly in the bathroom.
make sure paper products are disposed of properly and that she is cleaning herself properly (including handwashing)
If you read a lot of posts here this is the reverse of the questions I have seen where a parent is flushing everything, clogging toilet and causing overflows. Solution to both is supervision.
First of all, many of our elders came from other countries where plumbing was unreliable, and this was (and by the way STILL IS) the proper way of disposing of tissue after going to the bathroom.
Secondly, many lived in areas where they had septic and some portion of their minds still remembers what could happen with septic.
Thirdly many have engrained in their minds the status of years of poor plumbing where the plunger was a member of the family.
All of those things together make (especially women) elders hesitant to dispose of lots of toilet paper into the toilet.
The "tissue-issue" is often only the beginning of it. In my own city of SF we have had droughts and water saving programs that since the 60s have come up with cute ads that remind us "If it's yellow it's mellow; if it's brown flush it down", and we seniors OFTEN do not flush urine down until there's company at the door (hee hee). So imagine that habit coming with us when the mind's slipping? Just sayin..............
I hope you have luck with retraining, but you may not.
Just know this is VERY common.
It doesn't really matter how many experience this, too although it may help you to know you are not alone.
What will help you is figuring out how to manage the situation.
Is she in a nursing home?
Her home?
Your home?
Do you have regular caregivers coming in to check / work with her?
How often do you check the waste basket? Do you need a waste basket in there? (perhaps 'just' keep one in the bathroom next to the tiolet.)
I have known of a client who hid these kinds of things in the closet. See ... it can be worse. (comic relief is important; I am not minimizing your situation).
"If" you take the basket out of the room, see what she might do instead.
Perhaps put a camera in her room - ?
Perhaps try medication.
More frequent visits (you, caregivers)
Manage food IN --- to have a clue with food OUT ... to be there before she does this. There likely is then an issue of feces on her hands - ? although you do not mention this. Sounds me to like she needs more constant care / observation throughout the day.
Gena / Touch Matters
My mom always put her peanut butter in the fridge, my whole life. I hate cold peanut butter. Every so often I can't find the peanut butter, I know to look in the fridge because i put it in there without thinking.
Old habits stay with us forever
Anyway, at home, when my mom fell, I started going over every day to help her, as we realized how bad things were getting. Some days she was completely obsessed with pulling out a kleenex, dabbing her nose, and throwing it down.. She would go through boxes of kleenex and all I would do is pick up her tissues and throw them away, because she would completely cover her TV tray with them.
The other thing she did is what you described. She refused to flush any paper down and usually wouldn't flush at all. When I would first come in the morning, the bathroom floor and bathtub were a sea of wads of toilet paper.
The thing we discovered soon after is that her toilet barely flushed anymore. She was aware, but did care enough to call a plumber. We wound up spending over $10K getting her sewer line cleaned out and the yard dug up to replace the tar paper pipes she had. (They had lived there close to 60 years, and tree roots, etc.) The inside of the toilet was solid grey brown with stuff. Not dirt, but limescale from the hard water sitting for so many years.
Anyway, after 3 months of all this, she was evaluated and determined to be on the line between moderate and severe dementia. She was stuck in a holding pattern of just existing in that house. It was a nightmare. We decided it was time for her to be in memory care because she was just nonlonger present in her own life. She couldn't afford in-home 24 hr care, and her home was not suitable for employees to have as a workplace.
When she was accepted into the memory care facility, which is gorgeous, I was so worried and warned them about how she is with kleenexes, and the bathroom. They assured me they would take it under consideration.
When she got there, she never did those behaviors again. That place was wonderful for her. It was a shock at first, but all the activities and the daily schedule keep her mind so busy, and the supervision and help in the bathroom pushed all these behaviors out of her head. She is like a different person and alive again! It was such a hard decision, but it has been like night and day. She doesn't even hardly use kleenex anymore!
My long a** point is that maybe your loved one needs to get out of their rut. Then you can stop beating your head against the wall too. If their behavior is new and odd, there is something going on and it is serious. My mom was a housewife, and her real self would be shocked and saddened to he her current self as she is, and she would hate to see me suffering through cleaning up her mess like I am. But she's my mom and I the only child. This is not what we planned, but here we are. It's not her fault.
in an odd twist I had to explain to some visiting contractors not to put paper on the floor and to put it in the toilet.
On another note, my mother, who did not have dementia, often put supposed flushable toilet wipes in her trashcan as she had a different kind of septic system. Often those wipes that state they're flushable can and do clog up a toilet.
The best way to verify flushability is to put the product in a glass of water and see if it dissolves. I haven't found any that do, so safer then flooded is my personal opinion.
Your mom was very wise not to flush them. Well done mom!
The stories I have heard about the cement in the black tank. Oh my, they are not something you want to deal with.
Thankful for all the products that can help alleviate that particular ch!show, punn intended. :-)
Always good to see you posting MaryKathleen.
Keep the tissues near her bed for facial use only.
Flushable wipes are not really flushable. NYC had a massive lawsuit regarding the use of these and in most public toilets today you will see messages indicating not to put them in the toilet. My friend is a plumber and he says more than half of the stopped up toilets he sees are from these flushable wipes.
She probably is not remembering what to do with the tp. Very common ....I guess just have to empty the trashcan daily...I am so sorry for you but there are no answers just do the best you can.