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Your situation is a tricky one with the level of resistance you are getting from your dad. At the end of the day a guardianship is a piece of paper and as you have described it doesn't inherently change the relationship dynamic and force him to change. I would say pay for his day to day care with the aide, and maintain the household using his funds to the best of your ability but don't kill yourself. If he won't let you service the cars, don't service the cars. Let them break down as a consequence of his stubbornness. The key is to make a plan for the upcoming crisis's that will inevitably happen due to his lack of insight to his limitations. Investigate long term care options so that when he eventually has an emergency or hospitalization and his doctors determine that he is no longer safe to be at home you have a plan in place to fall back on. Flash your guardianship paperwork to all the hospital staff and insist they involve you in all discharge planning. Give your opinion with safety concerns about him living independently. In this situation you are not making the determination around safety, the physicians make the decision based on the objective observations you provide. They can document these functional changes in the medical record which should protect you with the court. Living situation transitions are usually easier around a hospitalization as you can use the dynamic painting the doctors as the bad guys forcing change instead of yourself. This allows you to be the good guy that is on his side helping find a good new solution. The key is to recognize it is not your job to prevent the crisis due to his refusals for extra help. It is also not your job to make his life perfect at your own expense. If he is in a facility and complaining it is not your job to facilitate the logistics of getting him back home. For example: Someone who is safe to live independently in their own home would have the cognitive ability to contact a taxi and get themselves home without involving anyone else. It is not a prison, and the fact that most unhappy patients in a facility cannot problem solve their way out of the facility is a strong sign for the need for increased supervision. Strong boundaries around what you will and wont for do for him yourself are very important. If you are maintaining the minimum foundation of safety and hygiene while letting natural consequences take their course that is perfectly appropriate.
First of all, your father is responsible for paying the bills for his home out of HIS FUNDS. Why on earth would there be any other source. Certainly YOU should not use your money - you will need that for you one day. Hold onto it. And if he is so extremely difficult to deal with, why are you his guardian and allowing it to cause such anxiety and difficulties and harm for you. Don't do it. Let someone else have the brunt of his behavior. Once people become so difficult in their personalities and behavior, that is the break point - move on and have your life without the problems and pain. No one deserves that.
You indicate "the rear roof needs gutters and flashing" and " the huge yard needs to be done and trim" but you also say you "don't have the knowledge or tools for this."
The question really is what does the guardianship paperwork say? If it says this is your 'responsibility', it does NOT mean YOU have to do it or pay for it yourself. Widow or not, I would suspect most of the women on this site wouldn't have the ability to fix gutters and flashing!
Have they set up an account for you to pay for things your father needs? Is there enough to cover larger jobs or recurring tasks (yard work)? Would a repair job require requesting court approval? If your documents do not specify, I would contact the court and ask them.
If there is funding (his money) available, then it is time to start asking friends, relatives, neighbors, etc if they know people who perform these tasks. I prefer to hire help that someone else has hired and knows their ability and reliability. You can pick anyone out of a phone book (if they even still make those!) or find one online, but it is hard to know who to choose.
Also, whenever possible get multiple referrals from people you know and request quotes from the suggested people (handyman or general contractor type for the roofing.) ASK questions about specific work to be done. If you don't understand, find a friend or neighbor who can go over the proposals with you.
Generally a repair job will require some kind of deposit, and then payment in full when the job is completed to your satisfaction. Yard work would be a recurring task - you can make arrangements to have it done on a regular basis and if you don't like the work they do you can "fire" them and find someone else.
If the court hasn't allocated enough funding to do this work and/or the paperwork doesn't give you the responsibility, I would contact them and ask what it is you can do to change it. Pictures, proposal quotes for the work needed, etc, would be good to have to support you if you go in to ask them to update the documents/funding.
I have access to some money in a conservatorship account but he has more that is in a restricted account to keep my bond cost smaller. My dad is very upset that he cannot access it either although he doesn't need to. He also has his own checking account outside the conservatorship. As I am running down on funds in my conservatorship account and the annual accounting is coming due, I will ask that some of the restricted funds be released to the conservatorship account. Most of what I can access besides cash is IRA and stock money which will ultimately cause a tax problem at the end of the year. No reason not to spend down some of the cash instead.
In the guardianship papers, I am not allowed to sell his cars or his house without dad and court approval. I have no choice but to maintain them but I don't have time. Oil changes are up to date but they are high mile cars. Something will happen to them eventually. Insurance is paid and tags are current. He will not let me take either one of them for service by myself as he is afraid he won't get them back so that would require him and the caregiver to take them to a car place and wait for the servicing to be done. I am not allowed to move him without court approval and have been told he will be served papers when that time comes. That will cause WWIII. Dad won't let me have a key to his house and he keeps cash stashed in a private place which I have no access. If I wanted to hire someone to bust down the door and repair it all and install doors and locks, I suppose that would fix the key problem but I haven't gotten to that point yet.
It is not that the court doesn't allow me access to some of this, it is that my dad won't let me. Short of wrestling things like house keys away from him which would require police intervention, I'm stuck. (and I have called the police to see if they can help and they can't). Dad holds all the control. I pick and choose my battles carefully with him because it amps up his anxiety so I try not to upset him.
For those of you thinking about guardianship, yes, it gives you 'legal' control to do lots of things but if your parent/spouse is stubborn like my dad, it really doesn't make any difference.
Thanks for the update Babs75- this is why I posted the link and some info, to enlighten others. Many of us (myself included), especially when we haven't traveled that path, think guardianship is a total package, but that link clued me in and your post reinforces it! Sounds like it is just an "official" POA that costs a lot of money and time/accounting, but doesn't really afford one much more "power" than a POA. One would hope in the case of cognitive impairment they might allow more oversight and less "independence" for the person...
The goal of guardianship, according to that link, is to allow people to maintain some kind of "independence." I can understand it, especially after reading about the guardianship scams that happened in Nevada (not even a family member in those cases!) However, like granting joint legal custody in a divorce, do they really look at the WHOLE picture, and determine what is *REALLY* best for everyone involved, or just play Solomon, and split the baby in two???
In your case, dad is being very obstinate (paranoid?) - it isn't like you are trying to lock him up or take anything. Hopefully this is just some kind of old age thing for him and he wasn't like this before... If he was, I might have thought the guardianship business through about 50 times before taking that on!
Fingers are crossed that they will see some sense during the review and grant you a bit more leeway and funding.
(BTW, if you do reach the point that you must get in, and have court approval, a locksmith would be a better method! Then you can replace the locks without having the replace the door!)
As noted in several of my posts here, guardianship can vary a lot (I was NOT aware of this myself!) You would have to read through whatever court papers were provided, or call and discuss with the courts if it isn't clear in the documents. From your various responses, it is clear that you do not have 100% control. It almost sounds as if you have about as much control as any one of us would have over him! If you don't have access to his funds, you can't pay for the services/repairs.
You mentioned a review/accounting coming up. I would document whatever you can and ask that they grant you more control. Take pictures if you can (roofing, yard, interior if you can get in), perhaps get some feedback from the care-givers, etc. Are the inspections on the cars up to date? Mom's was expired months before a brother had to drive it and found it expired!
Explain to them how various repairs and tasks need to be taken care of, but without access to his funds, they cannot be addressed. NO court should be expecting you to shell out your money for his repairs/tasks. Large expenses, such as the roof, will likely need court approval anyway, but again, they need to understand dad refuses to grant you access to any funds (would he be agreeable to getting some quotes and get the work done?) I would have a LONG discussion with those attending this "accounting."
For others as "uneducated" about guardianship as myself, please see: https://family.findlaw.com/guardianship/guardianship-of-incapacitated-or-disabled-persons.html
Example from that site:
"Guardianships are limited as much as is reasonable in order to allow wards to exercise as much control over their lives as possible while maintaining as much dignity and self-reliance as possible. The desires of the wards are given primary consideration. Also, wards are allowed to do as much of their own caregiving as is physically and mentally possible."
Who knew?? I was aware (as some are not) that having POA of any kind is not all encompassing, and in many instances does NOT give you the power to determine where/when they live/move, among other issues. Some are very detailed and specific, others are vague, BUT they mainly give you oversight into finances/medical, in the event the person is incapable of making/understanding these decisions. We found out the hard way that having DPOA did NOT give us the "power" to make mom move to MC (or anywhere for that matter.)
He is responsible for cost, you who presumably want him to live in reasonable conditions are responsible for ensuring he does so. You are his guardian you have to look after him.
She can only do what the court has granted. I was also confused by this, but checked the following: https://family.findlaw.com/guardianship/guardianship-of-incapacitated-or-disabled-persons.html
In there, it states "Guardianships are limited as much as is reasonable in order to allow wards to exercise as much control over their lives as possible while maintaining as much dignity and self-reliance as possible. The desires of the wards are given primary consideration. Also, wards are allowed to do as much of their own caregiving as is physically and mentally possible."
From some of Babs75 responses, clearly she was not granted much oversight, has no access to the house/cars and limited access to funds. The profile only indicates age related decline, no dementia, so I can see from all of this that her hands are tied! Documenting everything and perhaps requesting more oversight during her court review would be advised.
Again, I was not aware that guardianship could vary so much! I have advised others about POAs, as many suggest getting/using it because they think these give you absolute power over the principal - they do NOT. Personal experience: We needed to move mom to MC, she refused to even consider moving ANYWHERE and EC attorney told us we could not force her to move, suggesting guardianship. Facility chosen would not accept a "committal", so we had to come up with plan C (a ruse to get her to reluctantly agree to move, which, at least in her mind, was temporary.)
Dad was granted use of a personal checking account through the conservatorship because he wants to continue to pay all the monthly bills on his house. The caregivers help him with his checks and they take them to the post office together. He has cash to pay for his groceries, lawn service, gas for the cars (the caregivers drive his cars). He told me again yesterday he is going to his attorney today (whom I have already warned) to make sure that no one touches his pension check. It's a big deal for him. For me, it's just an address change away and WWIII. I have keys to the cars but he will barricade himself in front of the garage if he has to so no one will take his cars. He will not let me in the garage alone. I work 2 blocks from a Toyota dealership. I could easily take his car to my house and drop it off on the way to work and have it serviced but he will not allow me to leave his house alone with his car for fear he will not get it back. His paranoia is awful.
You are responsible for your fathers safety and well being. So short answer is yes, it is up to you to make sure his place of residence is clean and safe for him to navigate inside as well as outside. If you can not do the necessary work to keep him safe in his home then you must either hire someone to do the work for you or you must move him somewhere else where his basic needs are met. Your own money does not need to be spent to do this. It is his financial responsibility if he has the means. If he does not, then it is up to you to connect him with some sort of assistance that is available through Medi-cal or similar institutions. Think of this time in your life as your opportunity to repay the sacrifices made by your parents to ensure that you were cared for and kept safe while you grew up and eventually were able to stand on your own two feet. Our parents gave us 18 years of love and support before we were able to make it in this world without their support. This is the very least that we can do to help them as their bodies begin to fail and they are not able to take care of their own needs. Old age is the cruelest stage of our life in my opinion. It reduces us back down to being frail, weak and helpless to survive without help from someone else. It very much is a "Circle of Life".
Yeah, I wish my parents gave me anything besides life littlesister. Then I got to hear for 16 years how I should have never been born. Wonder how you think I should pay that back?
I am transcribing the following which came from a paper about guardianship: "A guardianship for an incapacitated senior will typically arise where someone determines that a senior has become unable to care for their own person and/or property. In some cases, there may be a belief that the senior is being financially exploited or about to be exploited. In other cases, the person may be unable to care for him or herself and is not able to properly engage in the activities of daily living without assistance. There will typically be a precipitating incident that causes a professional, family member, health care worker or clergyman to initiate guardianship proceedings." "In most states, the process will start with a determination whether the alleged incapacitated person is actually incapacitated. There will often be an evidentiary hearing.[1] Only if a finding of incapacity is made will the next step take place: whether a guardian is necessary and to what extent (e.g. a guardian may be needed for the person's finances but not for the person) and, if so, who the guardian should be.[2] The determination of whether a guardianship is necessary may consider a number of factors, including whether there is a lesser restrictive alternative, such as the use of an already existing power of attorney and health care proxy.[3] In some cases, a guardianship dispute can become quite contentious, and can result in litigation between a parent and adult children or between different siblings against each other in what is essentially a pre-probate dispute over a parent's wealth. Stopping the guardianship is often pursued in such cases as well."
Guardianship has fiduciary ramifications, meaning responsibility for the subjects investments, property and business if applicable. It is a court appointed position, and if you have not been through the above, you are not a guardian and you should not identify yourself as one, because there would be misunderstandings and risks to you. If he requires a guardian, assuming he is being discharged by a rehab facility or something like that, you should get a bank to take that responsibility.
I thought guardianship gives you the legal power to make decisions about where he lives, and gives any type of housing or care facility you choose the legal power to keep him there against his wishes. If you are not using guardianship to make decisions about where he lives--why did you get guardianship?
I was perplexed by some comments as well. Understanding guardianship (and POA as some think this gives you the power of god, and it doesn't!) is important. Because of this, I did a quick lookup.
Guardianship apparently can vary a lot, depending on what the court orders:
As I replied to Babs75: Out of curiosity I looked up what guardianship entails and was surprised to read that it can vary, depending on what the court determines is necessary (Guardians are granted only those powers necessary to accomplish what the disabled or incapacitated person cannot accomplish independently. From https://family.findlaw.com/guardianship/guardianship-of-incapacitated-or-disabled-persons.html)
It might be a good idea to review what the court ordered in your father's case AND perhaps have that reviewed at your annual "accounting." Document everything and perhaps they can revise what your capabilities are.
Teddygough, Since I only applied for guardianship the answer to your question is yes. She was to far gone with the dementia for me to try to get any type of POA. I also wanted to protect her from the "professional" guardians since we (the state and families) were having trouble with them at the time. I failed to mention that the laws require any account with a balance of $10k be blocked. I could only deposit money into it. I could not remove any funds from her savings with out court approval and an invoice from the company doing the billing. Almost all of her SS money was saved in the checking account she had used and when it reached near the $10k balance I would transfer funds into her savings account. I was planing on future needs for her care in a SNF. All of this was reported to the court in the annual report to the court. I might add that I could not move her without notifying the court of a change in her address , whether that was within the state or a move to another state.
If you are curious about any type of POA, you need to read just what the POA's allows and if there are anylaws in your area regulate them.
Guardianship just means you are helping him handle things he no longer can. If he were still on his own without guardianship, he would live there - clean house - mow the yard - keep the house in livable condition with his income. You should be doing the same as you manage the details of his life. So it comes down to, can he afford to have someone clean the house, mow the yard, fix broken things, etc? If he cannot do any of these things for himself - it has to be done by someone. If there are major issues that make the house dangerous, and no money for repairs, then maybe time to move. -Should he pass today, how would you benefit from the house??? Might be a good question to think about and help with decision about cleaning/repairs, etc
I have guardianship of my dad and he still lives in his own home. He is 93 years old and has no business living there. I refuse to put to put money (his) into that house, as whoever buys it eventually will probably tear it down. It is old and has issues. He has a friend who mows his lawn. I do not 'empower' him to live there. I don't make it easy for him, as I badly want to move him. I will be requesting letters from his doctors this fall/winter to present to the court.
Most people want and prefer to die in their own home, even if very compromised. Your attitude expresses your frustration, but doesn't address your Dad's needs/wishes or desires if it is truly to die at home. Suggest getting him some home support, before the trauma of re-location... too many of the facilities are disgusting and neglectful... not all, but the industry has a bad reputation. Try putting yourself in Dad's shoes, and see where and how you'd prefer to live out your last days.
Guardianship doesn't give you the right to sell as long as he is alive. Since you have guardianship, I would "think" that you "might" be expected to maintain but this doesn't mean out of your own pockets.
I believe you would be responsible to see that the house remains livable - ie: heat, water & electricity and the roof doesn't leak, no holes in walls/floors and fumigation if needed for bugs/rodents.
For more information, get in touch with an Elder Attorney or even Legal Aid.
If your father is expected to return to the home, you will need to keep in good condition. You can use his money if he has any. If it requires a lot of your own money or if your father is never going to be able to return to live there, it makes sense to sell.
You are responsible to maintain it using HIS funds to do so. If he does not have the funds to maintain the house and property then you have the ability to sell what can be in order to keep him safe, cared for. BUT anything that you do will have to be approved by the court. General maintenance would not be a problem. If you have to have a bathroom redone in order for him to get a wheelchair in, a roll in shower, things like that would have to be approved prior to doing work. Selling the house falls into a whole other category and, at least in my case, there were only a few Real Estate Agents that wanted to "follow the rules" the court required. So please check that out before you place any real estate on the market. But again to answer the upkeep question You use HIS funds to maintain the property
Are you the recipient of his belongings after he is gone? If so, you will want to keep the home maintained for safety and for future selling for the best price--or for yourself if you're staying/moving in to it. There are things you can do both inside and out just so you don't become bored and/or lazy. It will save money and get you exercise. What you can't do can be farmed out. I just described what I do.
No, you are not. But if the house will be yours when he passes, you might want to invest in the upkeep if he won't or can't. Or see if he would sell it and use the money for a place for him where they can take care of him.
As guardian decision making has been transferred to you. You have to make the best decisions for his care and safety. You aren’t required to use your resources.
Someone is responsible for your father's home. I oversee my mother's home maintenance. I do the raking in the fall, but in the spring and summer I have a mom & pop company do the mowing. It's about $100 a month.
If you cannot care for the home and he does not have the money to pay upkeep, I suggest you sell it and get a condo or put him in a nursing home. Hiring yard maintenance is not cheap. I am my own homeowner and I got rid of every single tree and shrub..less plants the better. I also use liberal amounts of ROUND UP. Trees can really mess up the sewage system, fall on houses, clog up rain getters, etc.
Identifying a handyman can be tricky. Depend on those who’ve had a good experience with one. If you or Dad have a church family, many times they can plug you into their maintenance staff who care for the church property.
I would only add that in our case there were limits on how much of her money I could spend on a monthly basis. These limits were mandated by state of Nevada laws. If Luz had an unusual or excessive expense I had to obtain court approval to spend the excess. As we lived together in our jointly owned property I personally took care of what she routinely needed such as transportation,food and shelter. Her needs for protective underwear and bed pads were charged to her account. Nevada laws are very strict on how money may be spent. This is to protect the protect person assets. If I had requested in the beginning for funds for dining out, entertainment, normal wear and tear of her clothing, it could have been approved. I would suggest you check with an attorney or you local agencies on how much you may need to spent. That is just a CMA thing. Above all be sure to keep all receipts. Best of luck and I hope this helps you with this question.
To obtain guardianship, you had to prove Dad incompetent. Which means he can no longer make informed decisions. You make them for him. I doubt if he is capable of being on his own. Where is he living now? You will just need to tell him that moving back to his home is not an option especially if he can't afford it. As guardian u are in charge of his money. None of your own should be used for his care. If he can't afford it, he can't do it. My suggestion is to get the house sold for Market value and put the money away for his care. Medicaid requires Market Value.
Market Value is hard to get in a distress sale, which this would be. Also beware that it must be an "arm's length" transaction! A sale to a family member would Not be Arms Length and Medicaid will look for difference between what you get and Their Market Valuation to be paid before they start covering expenses. Better to apply for Medicaid now, then sell. Be sure to know how this works in your father's state!
Levens, if you are dad's guardian, it is YOU who decides where dad lives. That's because a court has decided that dad no longer has the mental capacity to make good decisions that are in his best interests.
So, "dad has decided" is a non-starter. You are the decision maker now.
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I would say pay for his day to day care with the aide, and maintain the household using his funds to the best of your ability but don't kill yourself. If he won't let you service the cars, don't service the cars. Let them break down as a consequence of his stubbornness.
The key is to make a plan for the upcoming crisis's that will inevitably happen due to his lack of insight to his limitations. Investigate long term care options so that when he eventually has an emergency or hospitalization and his doctors determine that he is no longer safe to be at home you have a plan in place to fall back on. Flash your guardianship paperwork to all the hospital staff and insist they involve you in all discharge planning. Give your opinion with safety concerns about him living independently. In this situation you are not making the determination around safety, the physicians make the decision based on the objective observations you provide. They can document these functional changes in the medical record which should protect you with the court.
Living situation transitions are usually easier around a hospitalization as you can use the dynamic painting the doctors as the bad guys forcing change instead of yourself. This allows you to be the good guy that is on his side helping find a good new solution.
The key is to recognize it is not your job to prevent the crisis due to his refusals for extra help. It is also not your job to make his life perfect at your own expense. If he is in a facility and complaining it is not your job to facilitate the logistics of getting him back home. For example: Someone who is safe to live independently in their own home would have the cognitive ability to contact a taxi and get themselves home without involving anyone else. It is not a prison, and the fact that most unhappy patients in a facility cannot problem solve their way out of the facility is a strong sign for the need for increased supervision. Strong boundaries around what you will and wont for do for him yourself are very important. If you are maintaining the minimum foundation of safety and hygiene while letting natural consequences take their course that is perfectly appropriate.
You indicate "the rear roof needs gutters and flashing" and " the huge yard needs to be done and trim" but you also say you "don't have the knowledge or tools for this."
The question really is what does the guardianship paperwork say? If it says this is your 'responsibility', it does NOT mean YOU have to do it or pay for it yourself. Widow or not, I would suspect most of the women on this site wouldn't have the ability to fix gutters and flashing!
Have they set up an account for you to pay for things your father needs? Is there enough to cover larger jobs or recurring tasks (yard work)? Would a repair job require requesting court approval? If your documents do not specify, I would contact the court and ask them.
If there is funding (his money) available, then it is time to start asking friends, relatives, neighbors, etc if they know people who perform these tasks. I prefer to hire help that someone else has hired and knows their ability and reliability. You can pick anyone out of a phone book (if they even still make those!) or find one online, but it is hard to know who to choose.
Also, whenever possible get multiple referrals from people you know and request quotes from the suggested people (handyman or general contractor type for the roofing.) ASK questions about specific work to be done. If you don't understand, find a friend or neighbor who can go over the proposals with you.
Generally a repair job will require some kind of deposit, and then payment in full when the job is completed to your satisfaction. Yard work would be a recurring task - you can make arrangements to have it done on a regular basis and if you don't like the work they do you can "fire" them and find someone else.
If the court hasn't allocated enough funding to do this work and/or the paperwork doesn't give you the responsibility, I would contact them and ask what it is you can do to change it. Pictures, proposal quotes for the work needed, etc, would be good to have to support you if you go in to ask them to update the documents/funding.
In the guardianship papers, I am not allowed to sell his cars or his house without dad and court approval. I have no choice but to maintain them but I don't have time. Oil changes are up to date but they are high mile cars. Something will happen to them eventually. Insurance is paid and tags are current. He will not let me take either one of them for service by myself as he is afraid he won't get them back so that would require him and the caregiver to take them to a car place and wait for the servicing to be done. I am not allowed to move him without court approval and have been told he will be served papers when that time comes. That will cause WWIII. Dad won't let me have a key to his house and he keeps cash stashed in a private place which I have no access. If I wanted to hire someone to bust down the door and repair it all and install doors and locks, I suppose that would fix the key problem but I haven't gotten to that point yet.
It is not that the court doesn't allow me access to some of this, it is that my dad won't let me. Short of wrestling things like house keys away from him which would require police intervention, I'm stuck. (and I have called the police to see if they can help and they can't). Dad holds all the control. I pick and choose my battles carefully with him because it amps up his anxiety so I try not to upset him.
For those of you thinking about guardianship, yes, it gives you 'legal' control to do lots of things but if your parent/spouse is stubborn like my dad, it really doesn't make any difference.
The goal of guardianship, according to that link, is to allow people to maintain some kind of "independence." I can understand it, especially after reading about the guardianship scams that happened in Nevada (not even a family member in those cases!) However, like granting joint legal custody in a divorce, do they really look at the WHOLE picture, and determine what is *REALLY* best for everyone involved, or just play Solomon, and split the baby in two???
In your case, dad is being very obstinate (paranoid?) - it isn't like you are trying to lock him up or take anything. Hopefully this is just some kind of old age thing for him and he wasn't like this before... If he was, I might have thought the guardianship business through about 50 times before taking that on!
Fingers are crossed that they will see some sense during the review and grant you a bit more leeway and funding.
(BTW, if you do reach the point that you must get in, and have court approval, a locksmith would be a better method! Then you can replace the locks without having the replace the door!)
You mentioned a review/accounting coming up. I would document whatever you can and ask that they grant you more control. Take pictures if you can (roofing, yard, interior if you can get in), perhaps get some feedback from the care-givers, etc. Are the inspections on the cars up to date? Mom's was expired months before a brother had to drive it and found it expired!
Explain to them how various repairs and tasks need to be taken care of, but without access to his funds, they cannot be addressed. NO court should be expecting you to shell out your money for his repairs/tasks. Large expenses, such as the roof, will likely need court approval anyway, but again, they need to understand dad refuses to grant you access to any funds (would he be agreeable to getting some quotes and get the work done?) I would have a LONG discussion with those attending this "accounting."
For others as "uneducated" about guardianship as myself, please see:
https://family.findlaw.com/guardianship/guardianship-of-incapacitated-or-disabled-persons.html
Example from that site:
"Guardianships are limited as much as is reasonable in order to allow wards to exercise as much control over their lives as possible while maintaining as much dignity and self-reliance as possible. The desires of the wards are given primary consideration. Also, wards are allowed to do as much of their own caregiving as is physically and mentally possible."
Who knew?? I was aware (as some are not) that having POA of any kind is not all encompassing, and in many instances does NOT give you the power to determine where/when they live/move, among other issues. Some are very detailed and specific, others are vague, BUT they mainly give you oversight into finances/medical, in the event the person is incapable of making/understanding these decisions. We found out the hard way that having DPOA did NOT give us the "power" to make mom move to MC (or anywhere for that matter.)
https://family.findlaw.com/guardianship/guardianship-of-incapacitated-or-disabled-persons.html
In there, it states "Guardianships are limited as much as is reasonable in order to allow wards to exercise as much control over their lives as possible while maintaining as much dignity and self-reliance as possible. The desires of the wards are given primary consideration. Also, wards are allowed to do as much of their own caregiving as is physically and mentally possible."
From some of Babs75 responses, clearly she was not granted much oversight, has no access to the house/cars and limited access to funds. The profile only indicates age related decline, no dementia, so I can see from all of this that her hands are tied! Documenting everything and perhaps requesting more oversight during her court review would be advised.
Again, I was not aware that guardianship could vary so much! I have advised others about POAs, as many suggest getting/using it because they think these give you absolute power over the principal - they do NOT. Personal experience: We needed to move mom to MC, she refused to even consider moving ANYWHERE and EC attorney told us we could not force her to move, suggesting guardianship. Facility chosen would not accept a "committal", so we had to come up with plan C (a ruse to get her to reluctantly agree to move, which, at least in her mind, was temporary.)
The court granted guardianship because he is no longer competent to handle money.
Why do you need his permission to make a car key? Why do you need (or think you need) permission to service his car?
Think of this time in your life as your opportunity to repay the sacrifices made by your parents to ensure that you were cared for and kept safe while you grew up and eventually were able to stand on your own two feet.
Our parents gave us 18 years of love and support before we were able to make it in this world without their support. This is the very least that we can do to help them as their bodies begin to fail and they are not able to take care of their own needs. Old age is the cruelest stage of our life in my opinion. It reduces us back down to being frail, weak and helpless to survive without help from someone else. It very much is a "Circle of Life".
"A guardianship for an incapacitated senior will typically arise where someone determines that a senior has become unable to care for their own person and/or property. In some cases, there may be a belief that the senior is being financially exploited or about to be exploited. In other cases, the person may be unable to care for him or herself and is not able to properly engage in the activities of daily living without assistance. There will typically be a precipitating incident that causes a professional, family member, health care worker or clergyman to initiate guardianship proceedings."
"In most states, the process will start with a determination whether the alleged incapacitated person is actually incapacitated. There will often be an evidentiary hearing.[1] Only if a finding of incapacity is made will the next step take place: whether a guardian is necessary and to what extent (e.g. a guardian may be needed for the person's finances but not for the person) and, if so, who the guardian should be.[2] The determination of whether a guardianship is necessary may consider a number of factors, including whether there is a lesser restrictive alternative, such as the use of an already existing power of attorney and health care proxy.[3] In some cases, a guardianship dispute can become quite contentious, and can result in litigation between a parent and adult children or between different siblings against each other in what is essentially a pre-probate dispute over a parent's wealth. Stopping the guardianship is often pursued in such cases as well."
Guardianship has fiduciary ramifications, meaning responsibility for the subjects investments, property and business if applicable. It is a court appointed position, and if you have not been through the above, you are not a guardian and you should not identify yourself as one, because there would be misunderstandings and risks to you. If he requires a guardian, assuming he is being discharged by a rehab facility or something like that, you should get a bank to take that responsibility.
Guardianship apparently can vary a lot, depending on what the court orders:
As I replied to Babs75:
Out of curiosity I looked up what guardianship entails and was surprised to read that it can vary, depending on what the court determines is necessary (Guardians are granted only those powers necessary to accomplish what the disabled or incapacitated person cannot accomplish independently. From https://family.findlaw.com/guardianship/guardianship-of-incapacitated-or-disabled-persons.html)
It might be a good idea to review what the court ordered in your father's case AND perhaps have that reviewed at your annual "accounting." Document everything and perhaps they can revise what your capabilities are.
Since I only applied for guardianship the answer to your question is yes. She was to far gone with the dementia for me to try to get any type of POA.
I also wanted to protect her from the "professional" guardians since we (the state and families) were having trouble with them at the time.
I failed to mention that the laws require any account with a balance of $10k be blocked. I could only deposit money into it. I could not remove any funds from her savings with out court approval and an invoice from the company doing the billing.
Almost all of her SS money was saved in the checking account she had used and when it reached near the $10k balance I would transfer funds into her savings account. I was planing on future needs for her care in a SNF.
All of this was reported to the court in the annual report to the court.
I might add that I could not move her without notifying the court of a change in her address , whether that was within the state or a move to another state.
If you are curious about any type of POA, you need to read just what the POA's allows and if there are anylaws in your area regulate them.
Since you have guardianship, I would "think" that you "might" be expected to maintain but this doesn't mean out of your own pockets.
I believe you would be responsible to see that the house remains livable - ie: heat, water & electricity and the roof doesn't leak, no holes in walls/floors and fumigation if needed for bugs/rodents.
For more information, get in touch with an Elder Attorney or even Legal Aid.
If he does not have the funds to maintain the house and property then you have the ability to sell what can be in order to keep him safe, cared for.
BUT anything that you do will have to be approved by the court.
General maintenance would not be a problem. If you have to have a bathroom redone in order for him to get a wheelchair in, a roll in shower, things like that would have to be approved prior to doing work.
Selling the house falls into a whole other category and, at least in my case, there were only a few Real Estate Agents that wanted to "follow the rules" the court required. So please check that out before you place any real estate on the market.
But again to answer the upkeep question You use HIS funds to maintain the property
If Luz had an unusual or excessive expense I had to obtain court approval to spend the excess.
As we lived together in our jointly owned property I personally took care of what she routinely needed such as transportation,food and shelter. Her needs for protective underwear and bed pads were charged to her account.
Nevada laws are very strict on how money may be spent. This is to protect the protect person assets.
If I had requested in the beginning for funds for dining out, entertainment, normal wear and tear of her clothing, it could have been approved.
I would suggest you check with an attorney or you local agencies on how much you may need to spent. That is just a CMA thing.
Above all be sure to keep all receipts.
Best of luck and I hope this helps you with this question.
Does your father have the funds to pay for repairs?
What upkeep are you questioning.....curious....is it something complex (replacing a roof) and or not-so- complex (painting vs. vacuuming)?
You will just need to tell him that moving back to his home is not an option especially if he can't afford it. As guardian u are in charge of his money. None of your own should be used for his care. If he can't afford it, he can't do it. My suggestion is to get the house sold for Market value and put the money away for his care. Medicaid requires Market Value.
Better to apply for Medicaid now, then sell. Be sure to know how this works in your father's state!
So, "dad has decided" is a non-starter. You are the decision maker now.