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Does he have dementia? Where's he leaving from and going to? Does he live alone? Does he live with you?
Not knowing the specifics, it's difficult to answer your question. If you don't want him leaving, yes, you'll have to make sure he can't. If that means taking the truck, that's what you have to do. If he really wants to leave, he'll find another way, truck or no truck.
I seriously doubt that he's "fine most days." Whoever is supposed to take care of him needs help because eyes need to be on him 24/7. In order to keep him safe, that may mean care in a facility. Otherwise you risk what happens to many other elders when they start wandering, which is disappearing down the interstate, getting off and becoming confused, then peeing in a condominium guard shack. This has happened with the fathers of two separate friends. It could have been worse, like ending up in a canal with vultures swooping around. That has also happened to people I know about.
Take this seriously. It's more than taking the truck.
You have posted this under Alzheimer's and Dementia, Jimsdaughter. But you haven't filled us in about your Dad. So I have a couple of questions for you: How old is Dad? Has Dad had a DIAGNOSIS of dementia? Does Dad live alone or with you? Do you feel Dad is no longer competent to drive? Has Dad had any recent DMV testing of driving and written test skills? What contact have you with Dad's doctors, assuming he sees them.
Thanks for this information and it will so help in attempting to answer your query to us. I surely do welcome you to Forum.
You can't legally take the truck if you aren't his active PoA and your Father does not have a medical diagnosis of cognitive impairment. I agree you'll need to disable it, but he may decide to "fix" it or have it towed to a shop, etc. There are stories on this forum about men who've gone out and purchased new vehicles when their concerned children took their vehicles, so don't underestimate your Father.
I recently transitioned my 95-yr old Mom out of driving by having her primary care doctor write an order for a virtual driving assessment through their OT (occupational therapy) department. It worked really slick and I wasn't the one to break the news that she failed those tests, which had to go into her medical records and then her primary doc (who is a mandated reporter) was required to report that info to our Dept of Public Safety...who sent my Mom a letter telling her her license is now cancelled.
Call his primary care doc to see if you have this option for your Father. You can tell him a "therapeutic fib" to get him to go to such appointment ("The DMV requires this test in order to retain your driving privileges). The OT gives a MOCA test (for judgment/executive brain function) and reflex testing. My Mom turned out to be high risk.
If your Father doesn't have a PoA but then gets a medical diagnosis of cognitive impairment, this may cause a future problem in managing his affairs and making decisions in his best interests. A person with no PoA who is cognitively impaired may very likely end up as a ward of a court-appointed legal guardian.
A primary doc is the best person to do the basic, first-level cognitive testing. But is should also be accompanied by other tests of other health issues, many of which can produce dementia-like symptoms (such as a UTI, which is treatable).
Dah....if your father has dementia he is not fine ever, and should NOT be driving ever. Period, end of sentence. Please either take away his keys or the truck so he can't kill or seriously injure some innocent person on the roadways.
You can disable the truck so it won’t move but he won’t feel as if you are trying to hold him back by talking his car or key’s , and it’s just a car issue. For an elderly there is nothing worse than being told what he/she can do, like a child. I should know I’m one of them.
I presume he has dementia and that has been determined by a medical provider? When you say he is 'fine most days,' you do not tell us how he is / how he functions the other / rest of the other days, which is important for us to know.
While you'll want to go to DMV, be sure to have legal authority to make decisions in this regard. Equally, if he is determined ... change the key on his key chain (if he has one ... often we don't need keys anymore) ... take a part out of the truck ...
Everything depends on how he functions day-to-day. If you feel he is in danger, by all means - take appropriate action for his safety / welfare ... and expect back-lash. He won't be happy ... he may say he can drive fine. This is very normal - this resistance. It is a huge loss to him to not be able to drive (does he drive at all?) - so calmly, clearly, set boundaries with immense compassion when discussing with him.
Often common sense approach won't matter to him. i.e., 'we want to keep you safe.' I wouldn't bother with that - although, again, it depends on his cognitive functioning/abilities. And the relationship / communication you have.
Thank you for asking. (I just came back fr a LOVELY trip with a friend who is close to 90. While MOST of his driving was as good as mine / could be, he potentially got us killed / injured twice. He is aware and concerned - and overall, extremely active and engaged in his life. Still. I'm not ready to go ... nor that way. ... my compassion went out the window at that point.)
I had my 93 old mother's doctor tell her she shouldn't be driving. So my husband went ahead and disabled her car so I didn't have to take her keys. But I remind her what the doctor said. The car is still in her garage, and as far as I know, she hasn't attempted to driving it which has been over a year.
YES! Ask yourself how you'll live with yourself knowing he shouldn't be driving and you could have stopped it, and then he goes out and kills someone in an accident. That's how I convinced my mother not to keep driving. I told her, "if you die in an accident, that's OK because you've lived a very, very long and full life. But what if you accidentally kill someone else?" She handed over the keys. She's unhappy that she can't drive and I have to hear about it most every day, but at least I know she won't accidentally kill someone in accident. It's a hard transition for them, but life is full of hard things like this. Please take the keys. To ease the blow you can do as others have suggested and disable the truck. He'll still see it there, but he won't be able to drive it.
If your dad has never had an accident or a close call it’s going to be next to impossible to ‘reason’ him out of the keys. But if packing up his truck to leave is irrational to begin with, you can be sure his brain function is impaired and he shouldn’t be driving.
My own husband when in the early stages of dementia, believed like a 10 year old, that nothing bad would ever happen because nothing bad had ever happened before. Nothing could persuade him otherwise. Even after he backed into a garbage truck and I used that (along with some creative lying) to get rid of his car, he STILL denies it was his fault and thinks someone is trying to “screw” him!
If you are legitimately afraid for his safety and the safety of others you are going to have to forget trying to appeal to his higher self which he may no longer possess, and use your own creativity.
My mother did the same thing when she still had early dementia. This was confusion about her current living conditions and anxiety that she couldn't stay there. Keep being aware of your father's state of mind and reassure him as much as possible that he doesn't have to leave or go somewhere else. If he is still driving safely and is not getting lost, it may not be necessary to take away the keys to his truck. Taking away their driving privileges is a big sacrifice for some people. Can you put a tracker on his truck so that if he does leave you'll be able to track him? Is he a wanderer, who goes out and then gets lost? Is he capable of going to activities on his own, perhaps to senior centers where he can meet people his own age? You'll have to assess his ability to be independent as time goes on. Also be aware of your own limitations, will you need help caring for him at some point? Will it be better for him to live in a senior residence at some point? His financial situation will determine his options. Make sure all of his paperwork is in order in case there is a time when he is not able to care for himself. He'll need a will, a living will with his advance medical directives, and needs to set up a healthcare proxy (a Power of Attorney) who can make medical decisions for him, and a POA who can handle financial decisions for him, help pay bills, etc. Will you be his POAs? All the best to you both!
My 91yo FIL thought he was fine driving for years and didn’t go far just to store. We noticed him in our culdesac hesitating and walked over to see why. He was practicing “ this is the gas this is the brake” that was the end…. I looked him in the eye and said that’s a big problem if you were driving and didn’t know the difference and hit your grandkids driving possibly killing them . He thought going less than a mile was ok . He would try to drive to church but had trouble making turns. We too had his dr tell him he couldn’t drive anymore and we took the keys. He knew we would take him anywhere he needed to go or wanted to go and he actually admitted later it was so much better for him, it was also helpful when he realized he was getting his insurance money back and he gave his suv to his grandson. I’m assuming he has dementia from how you worded your question and yes alvadeer is correct that this was just the tip of the iceberg. At his age and before things get worse make sure all documents are done and correct, an Elder atty can be a great help. Stuff happens and better to be prepared… my hub in his 60’s was tboned and sustained a brain injury which is now Alzheimer’s and is in memory care… there was no way after the accident that he could or should drive as he didn’t always know where he was or how to get home. We are all aging and driving is a privilege that is earned and not guaranteed . We all at some point will also face this and ignoring doing the right thing because it’s not convenient or we don’t want to upset them is not a good answer. Safety first and foremost and not ignoring or faking it as there is too much at stake.
By proceeding, I agree that I understand the following disclosures:
I. How We Work in Washington.
Based on your preferences, we provide you with information about one or more of our contracted senior living providers ("Participating Communities") and provide your Senior Living Care Information to Participating Communities. The Participating Communities may contact you directly regarding their services.
APFM does not endorse or recommend any provider. It is your sole responsibility to select the appropriate care for yourself or your loved one. We work with both you and the Participating Communities in your search. We do not permit our Advisors to have an ownership interest in Participating Communities.
II. How We Are Paid.
We do not charge you any fee – we are paid by the Participating Communities. Some Participating Communities pay us a percentage of the first month's standard rate for the rent and care services you select. We invoice these fees after the senior moves in.
III. When We Tour.
APFM tours certain Participating Communities in Washington (typically more in metropolitan areas than in rural areas.) During the 12 month period prior to December 31, 2017, we toured 86.2% of Participating Communities with capacity for 20 or more residents.
IV. No Obligation or Commitment.
You have no obligation to use or to continue to use our services. Because you pay no fee to us, you will never need to ask for a refund.
V. Complaints.
Please contact our Family Feedback Line at (866) 584-7340 or ConsumerFeedback@aplaceformom.com to report any complaint. Consumers have many avenues to address a dispute with any referral service company, including the right to file a complaint with the Attorney General's office at: Consumer Protection Division, 800 5th Avenue, Ste. 2000, Seattle, 98104 or 800-551-4636.
VI. No Waiver of Your Rights.
APFM does not (and may not) require or even ask consumers seeking senior housing or care services in Washington State to sign waivers of liability for losses of personal property or injury or to sign waivers of any rights established under law.
I agree that:
A.
I authorize A Place For Mom ("APFM") to collect certain personal and contact detail information, as well as relevant health care information about me or from me about the senior family member or relative I am assisting ("Senior Living Care Information").
B.
APFM may provide information to me electronically. My electronic signature on agreements and documents has the same effect as if I signed them in ink.
C.
APFM may send all communications to me electronically via e-mail or by access to an APFM web site.
D.
If I want a paper copy, I can print a copy of the Disclosures or download the Disclosures for my records.
E.
This E-Sign Acknowledgement and Authorization applies to these Disclosures and all future Disclosures related to APFM's services, unless I revoke my authorization. You may revoke this authorization in writing at any time (except where we have already disclosed information before receiving your revocation.) This authorization will expire after one year.
F.
You consent to APFM's reaching out to you using a phone system than can auto-dial numbers (we miss rotary phones, too!), but this consent is not required to use our service.
Not knowing the specifics, it's difficult to answer your question. If you don't want him leaving, yes, you'll have to make sure he can't. If that means taking the truck, that's what you have to do. If he really wants to leave, he'll find another way, truck or no truck.
I seriously doubt that he's "fine most days." Whoever is supposed to take care of him needs help because eyes need to be on him 24/7. In order to keep him safe, that may mean care in a facility. Otherwise you risk what happens to many other elders when they start wandering, which is disappearing down the interstate, getting off and becoming confused, then peeing in a condominium guard shack. This has happened with the fathers of two separate friends. It could have been worse, like ending up in a canal with vultures swooping around. That has also happened to people I know about.
Take this seriously. It's more than taking the truck.
But you haven't filled us in about your Dad.
So I have a couple of questions for you:
How old is Dad?
Has Dad had a DIAGNOSIS of dementia?
Does Dad live alone or with you?
Do you feel Dad is no longer competent to drive?
Has Dad had any recent DMV testing of driving and written test skills?
What contact have you with Dad's doctors, assuming he sees them.
Thanks for this information and it will so help in attempting to answer your query to us. I surely do welcome you to Forum.
I recently transitioned my 95-yr old Mom out of driving by having her primary care doctor write an order for a virtual driving assessment through their OT (occupational therapy) department. It worked really slick and I wasn't the one to break the news that she failed those tests, which had to go into her medical records and then her primary doc (who is a mandated reporter) was required to report that info to our Dept of Public Safety...who sent my Mom a letter telling her her license is now cancelled.
Call his primary care doc to see if you have this option for your Father. You can tell him a "therapeutic fib" to get him to go to such appointment ("The DMV requires this test in order to retain your driving privileges). The OT gives a MOCA test (for judgment/executive brain function) and reflex testing. My Mom turned out to be high risk.
If your Father doesn't have a PoA but then gets a medical diagnosis of cognitive impairment, this may cause a future problem in managing his affairs and making decisions in his best interests. A person with no PoA who is cognitively impaired may very likely end up as a ward of a court-appointed legal guardian.
A primary doc is the best person to do the basic, first-level cognitive testing. But is should also be accompanied by other tests of other health issues, many of which can produce dementia-like symptoms (such as a UTI, which is treatable).
Please either take away his keys or the truck so he can't kill or seriously injure some innocent person on the roadways.
I presume he has dementia and that has been determined by a medical provider?
When you say he is 'fine most days,' you do not tell us how he is / how he functions the other / rest of the other days, which is important for us to know.
While you'll want to go to DMV, be sure to have legal authority to make decisions in this regard. Equally, if he is determined ... change the key on his key chain (if he has one ... often we don't need keys anymore) ... take a part out of the truck ...
Everything depends on how he functions day-to-day.
If you feel he is in danger, by all means - take appropriate action for his safety / welfare ... and expect back-lash. He won't be happy ... he may say he can drive fine. This is very normal - this resistance. It is a huge loss to him to not be able to drive (does he drive at all?) - so calmly, clearly, set boundaries with immense compassion when discussing with him.
Often common sense approach won't matter to him. i.e., 'we want to keep you safe.' I wouldn't bother with that - although, again, it depends on his cognitive functioning/abilities. And the relationship / communication you have.
Thank you for asking. (I just came back fr a LOVELY trip with a friend who is close to 90. While MOST of his driving was as good as mine / could be, he potentially got us killed / injured twice. He is aware and concerned - and overall, extremely active and engaged in his life. Still. I'm not ready to go ... nor that way. ... my compassion went out the window at that point.)
Gena / Touch Matters
To ease the blow you can do as others have suggested and disable the truck. He'll still see it there, but he won't be able to drive it.
My own husband when in the early stages of dementia, believed like a 10 year old, that nothing bad would ever happen because nothing bad had ever happened before. Nothing could persuade him otherwise. Even after he backed into a garbage truck and I used that (along with some creative lying) to get rid of his car, he STILL denies it was his fault and thinks someone is trying to “screw” him!
If you are legitimately afraid for his safety and the safety of others you are going to have to forget trying to appeal to his higher self which he may no longer possess, and use your own creativity.