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First let me say, my brother and mother are not physically abusive. My mother spent childhood on a ranch. She has always been very demanding and driven. Early to bed, early to rise. Always (and I mean, ALWAYS) has work for everyone to do. She insists my 65 yo brother get work done, constantly, treating him like a child most of the time. She is very verbally abusive. She has always thrown water on us to get up, even when we were children. After many episodes of this, my brother threw water back at her. Now she is acting like he beat her. I have suggested that my mom come stay with me, but when I did, she became furious and said the family (my dad's family in particular) has tried to run her out of her home all her life. I suggested that my brother take a break for a weekend, but he says the trouble he gets when he gets back isn't worth it. I have tried to set up the senior center activities and bus service for them, but they won't go. I have suggested counseling, but they won't go. I still work full-time with a husband at home, so I can't take her everywhere. I find myself avoiding both of them because all I hear is complaints about the other and whining about how life has treated her unfairly, for hours. I worry about my brother's mental health. Mom is really horrible to him but he won't help himself.

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Quite honestly it is difficult for us all to handle our OWN lives without trying to take on handling the lives of others, which is utterly impossible. Your brother at age 65 is apparently now living with Mom and has chosen to act as her primary caregiver. I don't know why he is doing so or how long he has been doing so, but it is unlikely that your suggestions for change will help either party here.
I would attempt "not to pick up the luggage" when you hear the stories. Try to act more as a supporting friend; sympathize but do let your brother know that how he proceeds is in his own hands. Suggest he may want to seek counseling to decide next steps forward for his own life.
Basically for yourself do just try to embrace that you cannot change others. Your writeup suggests that things have not been a lot different where Mom is concerned historically. They are unlikely to change. I surely do wish you and your brother good luck going forward.
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If he won't help himself, not much you can do. I am assuming he lives in her house. How much help does Mom need? Could brother live somewhere else close by. He really shouldn't be doing bathing and toileting of his Mom. Can she afford an aide.

With more info on brother, we maybe able to help him with options.
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Connie1234 Aug 2022
Why shouldn’t an adult son help his mother with bathing/toileting if he is able, especially as a primary caregiver? If she refuses his help that’s one thing, but sons can, should and do help their mothers with these needs. I guarantee daughters are bathing/toileting their fathers, but few people see this as an issue. My husband did this for his mother so his sisters could take respite breaks. Primary caregiving in the home shouldn’t be based on one’s gender.
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When my MIL and StepFIL were constantly in financial and health trouble, we were there helping them and figuring out solutions for them -- none of which they tried. Then I decided that in the future when she'd call me whining and crying that I would just keep changing the topic off of her and onto something totally unrelated. She finally got the message and stopped calling to complain to me in the middle of my work day.

We're not responsible for other people's happiness. We can't have their "recovery" for them. The best thing you can do is go on with your own life until your brother decides to actually do something to help himself.
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You are not responsible for their happiness.
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You’ve done all you could. Plus her throwing water on someone to wake them up seems like abuse. That is considered causing physical discomfort to another in an instance when all she would have had to do was call, “Dear sweet child, please wake up and join us in this delightful day.” I don’t know why you care about her anymore. And you don’t need her living with you. Ugh.
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This is their little dance together. Just let them dance to finish, but tell both of them you don't want to hear about it.
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BurntCaregiver Aug 2022
No, MJ1929. It may not be just their little dance. The brother may very well have reached the end of his rope here and needs help.
Nobody wants to see a situation like this end tragically. Many do though.
I would listen to the brother to a degree. Not hour after hour of the same whining and complaining. He may actually want help and not know how to help himself.
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You are a wonderful sister and have looked into everything that you can. I would simply tell brother to let you know how you can help in the future. Unfortunately some people are very comfortable in their personal chaos. That’s what they know and are accustomed to.
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Both you and your brother are wonderful for standing by your mother. Are your mother's finances good enough to hire additonal help around the house to take some burden off your brother? At 65 years old, he probably does need some breaks. Your mother might be eligible for help with housework via Medicare. A local social worker might be able to advise. Would your mother and brother accept having people come in to help?
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LoopyLoo Aug 2022
It is not wonderful to stand by an abusive parent. It’s almost defeat, really.
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His is not functioning as a caregiver. He is doing chores. He needs help in separating himself by just doing chores. He is "prime" to abuse her. He has already started as "they do not get along". He can not make himself to be a Caregiver cause he is not at the present time. When he accepts Her being horrible to him...he will and probably is "neglecting" and this will increase "abuse". Both are "getting something out of this relationship" and are willing to continue what neither wants to change or get help. She probably has not changed Her "lifestyle". You have probably dealt with it till you "left home"The current relationship will deteriorate and she will be "in danger to herself" in living there because she will further decline and mentally she will become "dependent" and He will not meet her needs. Your brother is willing to continue their relationship from "childhood". I am saying again...They are both getting something out of it. Results...they both are willing to "live with it".
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LoopyLoo Aug 2022
Hmm? “This” reply is “surely” well-intentioned “but is” a “bit confusing”.
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Joyce4mom: You've stated that "my brother and mother are not physically abusive" although certainly throwing water on a person may in fact constitute abuse. In addition, it creates more work, e.g wet clothing and bed linens that must be laundered, not to mention hair to be washed and dried. Your brother may indeed require respite, if only he advocates for himself.
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I’ve had to go to therapy due to the stress of being the primary caregiver of my mom. She lives with me and my husband and has for the last 10 years. We have been married for 40 years. Mom has late dementia/early Alzheimer’s and becomes unreasonable and hostile at times. She and my husband would both come to me to complain about the other, making me feel like I needed to solve the issue. However, my therapist taught me that managing that relationship is NOT my job and to put my foot down to each of them by telling them that I will not listen to either of them and they need to work it out. It is their relationship, not mine. Of course my husband understands that he can tell me anything that is bothering him, as we are best friends, but I won’t be involved in working it out between them. This advise was hard for me to wrap my head around at first but it has been the very best thing I could have done for myself - and for them because they both know that they have to come to some sort of peace without me stepping in.
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BurntCaregiver Aug 2022
Your husband sounds like one good man. He did not marry your mother, he married you.
I would not have deal with what your husband has had for the last ten years. I think maybe I'd be a little more inclined to take his side and maybe put mom in assisted living.
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"Mom is really horrible to him but he won't help himself."

I suppose my angle would be to follow the advice I received from a Social Worker;

1. Offer advice
2. Let him/her choose
3. The consequences are his/hers

Then;
4. Leave thinking time/space
5. Repeat

You can't change either your Mom or Brother... but you could keep your message to your Brother on repeat.

*You CAN change the situation if you want*

He may feel trapped. But mostly people stay trapped due to their own mindset.
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Your brother is in an abusive situation. His behavior is of someone who is abused.

Unfortunately, unless he wants out, he will continue to do the same behavior that allows the abuser to abuse him. It is a very sick cycle.

Your Mom is not going to change now as she has gotten to where she is, by inflicting that abusive behavior. Its worked before and its working now since no one is forcing her to change her behavior.

However, you don't have to be a party to either the abusive behavior or the abused behavior of your mother and brother. You have to assert your rights (boundaries). You have to be clear to them that you no longer want to hear either of them complain or whine about each other when they are with you. You probably don't want to have them trying to force you to "take sides" either.

You suggested a therapist for your brother, I would suggest a therapist for you to help you get those boundaries in place. Avoiding interaction with your mother and brother, will not work in the long run. A therapist can help give you some healthy strategies on how to deal with each of them and both of them.

Good luck! This part of life is hard....
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This forum has confirmed to me that
1. I do not get along with my daughter well enough to trust her to take care of me in my old age. So, I'd better figure out alternatives NOW, while I don't need care.

2. My parents were extremely foolish to think that they would just magically drop dead and not have to worry about the future. My father mercifully basically did, but my mother will not ever go quietly to "the home". And I will never, ever be trying to take care of her.

Nothing good seems to come from assuming you'll be in good health all your life, or that your children will take care of you. Generations where that could be expected are long gone. Aaand, this is why we need more universal elder care, and not expect the family to have all the resources necessary for us when we live into our 80s and beyond on a regular basis. There is a LOT of pain happening.
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Is your brother financially dependent on mom? If he is, that changes everything. If she is supporting him at the age of 65, he really cannot help himself and will likely need the services of a social worker to help him get away from the situation.
Your brother is being abused by your mother. As you've stated the abuse is not new. As you say, he won't even leave for a weekend because of the abuse that will happen when he gets back.
I don't know what your brother's reasoning is for why he remains living with her. No matter what his reasons are, no one has to tolerate or live with any kind of abuse.
You are wrong in saying that your mother is not physically abusive. Pouring a bucket of water on someone is assault and that is physical abuse.
The next time your mother throws a bucket of water on your brother he needs to call the police. This is the only way your mother will learn that even though she has an 'up and at 'em' attitude and work for everyone to do, she is not going to get away with assault.
Your brother may be embarrassed to go to the police. He may even feel ashamed, but he has to do it and not back down. Be supportive in this. Your mother needs to be arrested and charged with assault. If she is allowed to get away with abuse and never gets any consequences for her behavior, she will continue to abuse. He needs to call the cops the next time she gets the bucket of water. If she has to pay fines, get community service, or attend court-ordered anger management classes it may help her to learn how to keep her abusive tendencies in check. She would do well to learn how to and you're never too old to learn.
If her behavior is dementia-related and she needs care, then put her in a facility.
Your brother would do well to also start acting like an adult. He can come and go as he pleases. 'Mommy' does not get to decide where a grown 65 year old man can go or for how long. Your brother should take more than a weekend away. He should move away for his own good and stop enabling your mother's abusive behavior. If she needs to be placed, she should be.
You should stop enabling her verbally abusive behavior towards you as well. When you're on a phone call with her and the complaining and whining starts up, tell her you refuse to listen to her crap and nonsense anymore then hang up on her.
You should be worried about your brother's mental health and for the safety of both of them.
What will end up happening is your mother will go too far one day and she will push your brother past his breaking point. Then he will hurt her and very likely himself too.
All you can do is offer him support and put him in touch with the resources like a social worker and a therapist.
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