My father came from a family of origin that had no boundaries and would aggressively butt into their children's, grandchildren's, and great-grandchildren's lives. My father and I had a falling out because he made our relationship conditional on me caring for his parents and my mom's parents. These were sexist, verbally abusive, emotionally manipulative, grandparents from whom I kept a distance as I got older. My father became more progressive gender-wise as I grew up, but when the hands-on grandparent care started, he fell into his old family dynamics. My mom didn't intervene much because she wanted to save their marriage. My father's siblings are all divorced because that was the only way for their spouses to set boundaries with their in-laws. Then, in my 20s, my father would become uncomfortable with me wearing short track shorts and sports tanks (normal girl attire I grew up wearing). He said he was uncomfortable with women's bodies. And every time, I wore makeup or modest tanks or well-fitted work clothing, he would turn around and avoid eye contact. I felt betrayed because I came to trust him and saw him change his views on gender during my childhood, and then, he reverted to his old ways during the grandparent caregiving, when he was trying to accommodate them and make sure they lived out their years in peace. He would insist that I observe the religious mourning rituals for my grandparents, but I couldn't because they were either verbally abusive, never accepted me for who I was, or we just never had a relationship to begin with. I feel that my father neglected my needs. We gradually stopped talking over the years. My parents never met the new friends I made in my 20s, they weren't invited to my grad school graduation, they never met my husband, they weren't at my wedding, and they never met my kids. I've been in therapy for years, and finally accepted it. I spent most of my 20s after the estrangement being angry, but then I accepted it. I focused on the ways that I survived without my parents and family, instead of on the anger. And I learned to accept the pain, I guess when your parents die, it lessons but there's always a twinge of sadness on holidays. I realize that my parents were limited people who did the best they could. After the estrangement, there were times I didn't have enough to eat or didn't have a bed to sleep on, but I survived by myself, on my own. I learned to build a life for myself. I have a successful career, a great house, a wonderful husband who treats me like an equal, and a son (12) and daughter (11) whom I am raising in an equal way. We live about 30 minutes away, but I've never seen my parents in years. I've been teaching both my son and daughter how to cook and do some minor fixing around the house. Both are really into sports. I've taught my son to respect women. I've taught my daughter to be proud of her gender and body. We have a childless elderly couple living next door that have served as surrogate grandparents, and my friends have been great aunts and uncles. My husband's family is close-knit, and my kids are a part of their lives. I think my dad saw some photos on a social media account I have and found my phone number online this summer. He said he wants to meet his grandchildren before his death (he's in his early 70s, Mom in her 60s). He asked that I please dress modestly without tank tops and makeup. He also asked that my daughter not wear shorts above the knee and the sports tank tops that girls her age wear. There are no restrictions on my son's clothing. My dad told me that my grandparents are now dead, and he wants to keep the past in the past but not discuss it. He's seen his brother who's in his 80s spend his last years alone because he never re-married (caregiving consumed him). Dad doesn't want to die alone, and he said it would make him feel happy if I helped him with mowing the lawn and gardening. This brought back painful memories.
These kids are in middle school, which is such an emotionally precarious stage. When they’re teens they may be ready to have input into this situation. When they’re young adults they can decide for themselves.
The father says he wants to meet the children and they must comply with his expectations. It will make him happy if she would come and perform tasks he could pay strangers to do.
Sounds like a bully who wants to exert his influence, not like a lonely man who’s interested in getting to know his progeny as the people they are.
Yes, we’re only hearing one side, and it’s possible the grandfather doesn’t have the social skills to express himself. But I’m inclined to go with a mother’s gut feelings on this.
If she chooses to try to reconcile, she can demand that her father respect her autonomy as an adult and parent.
She’s also within her rights to say no.
Please pray an honest and sincere prayer and ask God for deliverance for peace.
Please keep me posted.
Thanks so much and be blessed.
Honoring your parents does not mean being abused and just accepting it.
When we grow up we leave our mother and father and become one with our spouse, we are no longer subject to our parents. Our spouse becomes our head.
You have gotten lots of good advice already and support concerning your desire to remain no-contact with your dad. I don't blame you BTW.
I just want to share something that might apply to your situation. My grandmother had my mother "out of wedlock" back when it was a shameful thing, and my mother's father remained out of the picture. She never knew him growing up but at some point as an adult she located him and met with him one time. She had no desire to start or have a relationship, she just wanted to meet him.
I tell you this because my mom has always been very private about the matter so much so that I don't know a single thing about him, not even his name. My mom totally dismissed her children's desire as we got older to know who is the guy that is our grandfather. She considered it HER private business, and case closed.
IF you decide to keep your children from meeting your parents, perhaps consider making/keeping a record of sorts so that one day IF they ever decide they want to know more about him/them you will have something to share with them. It's hard to just have this void in place of where a close relative should be. If nothing else for family health history.
Good luck, and congrats on creating a great life for yourself despite the (justified) estrangement from your parents.
What do you think my advice is? What would you say to you?
I am still wondering if there is a lot of religious pressure going on that you don’t know about. Would it be worthwhile to see the head honcho of whatever religious sect is involved? Or if you have a religious belief yourself, involved your own pastor and see if they can both go head to head? Breaking up a family is not a great idea for most religious leaders (as opposed to cult leaders).
I’ve just read a book about growing up in the Scientology hierarchy, and I’m prepared to believe almost anything at the moment!
You also do not need to excuse them with the old "they did the best they could." Obviously, they did not. An effort to do the best one can includes questioning the way you grew up and wondering if you can improve on it. They did not do that and apparently felt no need to do so. You are the proof that a person does not need to repeat the mistakes of your parents and their lack of child-rearing skills. You chose to see and understand your parents shortcomings and improve for yourself and your children. It sounds like your father has learned very, very little. If you expose your children to him he will simply hurt them as he hurt you. Tell him no more phone calls. If he had called you with an apology when you were still in your 20's and an earnest effort to do better, that would have been different. I see nothing but grief if you go along with any of his requests.
You made a life without abuse, had therapy, are married with a family of your own. You did well.
If you cannot live with "NO", putting all doubts out of your mind when they pop up, please do not take your children to see them. They may never forget the cruel judgment, and the feelings you have worked through in therapy, and accepted, that says you never quite measured up.
You don't have to revisit painful memories. You can revisit therapy to reinforce your "NO".
"NO" is a very short word. Don't make me come back and ask you "What is it about "NO" that you just don't understand? It was your "NO", a very good decision.
Coming from our family to yours...we said "NO" and meant it.
We support your decision based on what you wrote here.
If your parents are having trouble with yardwork, they may also have trouble with keeping up their home. It might be better to suggest that they move into a smaller place, like a condo, where they don't have to care for the grounds.
Choices have consequences and I don't think your children need to be subjected to someone who is already judging them without ever meeting them. No good would come of this for your family. Protect them at all costs from this situation.
It sounds like you're still at odds with yourself on this - or may need more validation in completely ghosting your parents forever. It's your decision - there are different ways to consider, but in the end, whatever brings you more peace is fine.
You must be living in a year-round warm climate because short track shorts seems like such an important issue, no? I was a bit confused - Your daughter can be proud of her gender and body and still understand that in some situations (like being in an office), that a person may need to modify their attire for that day. I don't see it as such a deal-breaker, though - they can still be who they are. For me, I'm mindful of what I decide to wear depending on who I'm with or where I'm going and it's not difficult to be flexible depending on the situation - I'm aware of who I am regardless so it's not important to me.
You don't live with your parents anymore - it's many years later and you can decide to test the waters or just leave them out of your life - hopefully, the relationship has other parts to it - or you'll find out that it doesn't.
Do you miss having a relationship with your mother - because she's still involved, correct? Your father sounds very modest - probably religious and this might just be his beliefs. But now, your grandparents are no longer in the picture....no care taking for them...and if you wanted, you can set very strong boundaries - and just test it. You can write him an email or letter - really specifying how you're wavering on re-entering them into your life because of the past and even considering it, they need to be more flexible and open to meeting you half way. Such as, you'll be wearing make-up as most women do (maybe you can modify it and wear lighter make-up when seeing him)...and just take the short shorts off the list when visiting him - how about jeans or pants ... just enforce it in the letter.
It didn't seem like there was much else - other than advising your parents that any responsibilities - such as mowing the lawn or care taking is off the table - if they want to be in your life and your children's life - then it's no responsibilities for you- no tasks - just to be with you.
If it's not acceptable, then you can feel even better about going your own way. It's ultimately your decision, but I think all relations are give and take and in the end, it really comes down to how much you want them in your life - if at all.
I was also wondering if the OPs mother tried to contact her over the years or just followed the husband's lead in general?
To the OP; you seem like you might want to test the waters and try a visit with your folks? I could be wrong, but you writing this post suggests you might be open to it, and to have your kids meet their grandparents. Compromise would be key, of course, and keeping the shorts and tank tops at home for the visit out of respect for dad's feelings. I've always dressed modestly in front of my parents; it felt awkward NOT to, actually. My father was an old school Italian immigrant with old fashioned beliefs about many things, including extended family obligations. I broke that mold when I made it clear I would not be moving them in with me, and set them both up in IL, then AL, and my mother is now living in Memory Care. I would definitely NOT agree to do chores for him though; he can easily hire a lawn service! If he wants to just meet up for a visit and to introduce himself to his grandchildren, that's one thing; but to expect and force his care wishes upon you is another.
Whatever you decide to do, best of luck.
Your heart was in the right place when you went no contact with him. You, your children and your husband are fine and happy.
Why drag in unnecessary drama to their lives?
Your father has already shown you who he is.
Continue believing it and ~ stay true to yourself and your family.
Enjoy the happy, lovely life you've made for yourselves.
I might be off base here and I do not mean to offend or trigger. Skip this next paragraph if my concerns about sexual issues don't apply or will make you unhappy to read.
My "someone has sexual issues" alarm bells are ringing pretty loudly. Won't even look at you if you're wearing properly fitted clothes? That's either crazy manipulative or he knows he can't handle it. Honor the fact that at least he realizes he has sexual issues by not putting temptation in his path in the form of your daughter. Yuck.
You have worked hard at making your life what it is today.
Don't let your father distract you.
Stay on course.
People often forget that it's very common for grandparents to have a different relationship with the grandkids then they ever had with their own kids.
My mother is proof of this. She was an abusive bully to me my entire life. She's an awesome grandmother and her grandkids think she's the best thing since sliced bread.
Should they have missed out on having a wonderful grandmother because she treated me like crap and still does?
No. They shouldn't miss out. FaroffDaughter's kids shouldn't have to miss out either.
You could be right about the father setting things up now for future caregiving needs.
That's probably part of why he wants a family reunion. A hard NO on the caregiving or possibility of it.
I see no reason to disrupt your life and confuse your children. Your father chose his life and lived his life as he chose to live it. Hopefully he has friends. If not he will have the resources of the state that someone without children also has.
I would not bring chaos into my peaceful life. It is not your job to make your father happy. It never was. You recognized that. Don't lose what you already fought so hard to gain.
What are your parents cultural/religious beliefs that make them so strict about what girls and women should wear? This too should be explained to your kids beforehand. Then let them decide if they want to meet their grandparents. You don't have to agree to start helping your parents around they house or yard, or doing anything else or them.
Your kids may only want to meet them once. Who knows? Let them be the ones who decide though.
They should not be making that decision. Children are easily influenced, he is not the kind of adult I would want my children meeting. The way he was to his own daughter is the way he will be to his granddaughter. Why put her through that.