My mom is being very mean. How much is intentional?

What this woman is doing is diabolical evil and I don't care why she is doing it - it is wrong and it must stop and nothing will stop her except to remove her from your father's presence. He needs help and protection and obviously deserves it - she does not based on her behaviors. Please place her immediately and take care of your father. Just lay the law down and do whatever is necessary. Don't allow her to do this to all of you.

Imho, while her past COULD be somewhat of a factor, her Alzheimer's disease is causing more alarming incidents.

It sounds (from original post and updates/responses) that you are quite aware of her capability to be cruel and nasty, before and since the onset of dementia. It also sounds like taking yourself out of the situation is best for you (and daughter.) While the dementia can certainly augment what one was before the onset, it varies from person to person. Some meek, mild quiet people become raging people where others who were more dominant become more docile. There is no rhyme or reason with dementia.

However, being aware of it doesn't solve your primary issue/concern, which is helping your dad. Her behavior may be directed at you when you are there, but most likely it doesn't disappear like vapor in the wind when you leave. It would be directed at your dad. Sadly he seems willing to accept this abuse.

The best you can do directly for him is to keep encouraging the idea of getting help, even if it means moving her to a facility. There might be medications that can take the "edge" off her abusive behavior without leaving her "doped" up. He needs to get her to the docs for a full workup and perhaps some additional testing in order to try medication.

Meanwhile, you can do the "leg work", checking out various places in the area. This can start with online, but should include in person visits. Tours are nice, but are "prepared", so can be a little misleading. If they allow visitors, go back at different times to observe. Keep a list and make notes. In particular, if there are any that offer "respite" care for a week or 2, highlight those. Then see if you can get him to just try one time, to get a break, which ANY care giver needs. Help him to understand these are not the old NHs of bygone days. Many MC units are very nice, have good staff, clean places, good food (you will hear the opposite from a few on this site - yes, there are crappy places, but that's why you check them first!!!) and entertainment.

Stress to him that he can still visit her, stay all day if he wants, help her with tasks, join her for meals, whatever he wants, but can go home to unwind at the end of the day. Visiting should be used often if the move is permanent, as much as he can handle. During respite, it might be best to encourage him to stay away, at least for a few days. Remind him that no one person can care for another 24/7 without impact on the body and mind. It's hard on younger people, it can be a killer for older people!!!

Stress also this isn't giving up on her, it's about getting help HE needs, so that he can be there for her, be her loving husband (although he'll still likely be her whipping post too.)

If nothing works, and he's unwilling to move her, then you can try bringing in hired help OR have to wait for the inevitable bus crash lealonnie1 mentioned. Hopefully you will have the tools you need (list of places, etc) prepared so that it won't be a scramble to get anything accomplished when that bus crash happens.

Do stay in touch with him, perhaps daily or more often as often as needed, to check on things. Stay out of mom's line of sight - no need to be a target! Even if you are, it likely doesn't take your dad off the target list, it just gives her more targets to aim for!

Hope you can eventually get through to dad. He needs a break.

2 questions only:

1 - Is your parents' living situation safe and healthy?

I would consider that your mom's behavior is not safe for herself and maybe not for your father. Her behavior is partially mental health issues and probably part dementia. Please ask her doctor for referrals to a neurologist (for evaluation and treatment of dementia) and a geriatric psychiatrist (for evaluation and treatment of mental health issues).

2 - Are your parents still mentally competent?
Please make sure that each parent is evaluated by their doctor or a neurologist annually for mental competence. Sadly, 75% of seniors 75 years old and older have some dementia issues. If you notice dad having mental competency issues, it may be time for them to have caregivers 24/7.

No, sounds like your mom has always been this way and there's nothing you can do about the situation as long as your father accepts her like she is and doesn't want you to interfere.

Now, if there really gets to the point where your mom or dad doing physical damage to themselves or to each other. At that time you could call Elderly Social Service about your concern but once they step in, they can basically do what they think best and that might not be what you want.

So, as ling as they both have their mental faculties. You need to just step aside as it's between your mom and dad.

Just let your Dad know you're there for him when he wants help.

Hi, my mother was always viscous and cruel to me when I was a kid and it continued all my life. My husband and I would go round , despite her having carets in 4 times a day and never know what we were going to get. She was absolutely vile. I put 6lbs on once after Christmas and she was in such a rage she started foaming at the mouth ! I started to do some research and came to the conclusion that she had Narcissistic Personality Disorder. Her behaviour was a classic fit for the symptoms of this disorder. It really shocked me but was the only thing that made total sense. My dear Dad also enabled her. As she got older she just got worse and worse until I decided that in my 60s I was no longer prepared to put up with the abuse. After one particularly bad visit where she was beyond evil because of some imaginary slight or other ( she wouldn’t tell me what I had actually done, but that was part of the game), she told me to get out and never come back. That’s exactly what I did. She died in hospital 5 months later, I arranged her funeral but did not go to it. The relief of her death was overwhelming and I have never ever regretted not seeing her before she died. Many people find this very harsh but believe me when I decided I was no longer going to allow her to abuse me, it was the best decision I have ever made!
think about your position and how much you are prepared to take. She won’t change!

She needs eval and memory care. That’s NOT what I’d suggest to him. I’d insist she see neurologist and get just an evaluation. She won’t even finish it. Her temper will come out and dad will see drs reaction and hopefully see how her behavior really is.

Dad may have good years left but when you leave, there will be avalanche on him. Make sure someone is POA before you leave offer to help with his care if she is placed. But, my mom is bipolar with ALZtrust me that looks very diff as they age and it’s not pretty. There are other types of dementia that are dangerous look at lewey body she needs assessed immed .

What if you used the question: dad, what happens to Mom when you go? Wouldn't you rather she was settled in a good memory care unit so you would know she is being taken care of?

Sounds so familiar.. except mom does not have dementia... and my dad gave up 35 years ago. So my siblings and I are still living their divorce. I spent last six years caring for dad... who did have dementia.... and was a delight.
There is no way to win this. Just boundaries as best as possible. Though when we/sibs distance... and we do, some more than others... then the complaint is that we are abandoning her... " just like your father". I just repeat the serenity prayer..... and "honor thy father/mother" mantras.
Good luck

"dad will only make a move if the situation becomes extreme"---um, from what you say, it's BEEN extreme for some time.

To HIM, it's normal. To me, reading about it, I'm think she's long past the case where she can function in society.

However, it's DAD who is calling the punches. I'd be a persistent pusher who was quietly checking out MC facilities and talking to dad about moving her.

He's probably terrified of her. My FIL was absolutely scared to death of my MIL, who finally divorced him after 42 years of the worst marriage on record. He had 14 years of peace and actually had some joy in his life.

MIL lives alone and has ONE friend. ONE. She allows no one in her home but her daughter and openly says the nastiest things I've ever heard about people she hates (everybody, really).

It did take us YEARS to get dad to leave and forge out on his own.
Be a support to dad and hopefully help him to find some joy in life. Being called nasty names in your own home has to be painful.

I would actually fear for your dad’s safety. A mean and violent person is capable of anything. In her mind her actions are justified. Your dad isn’t ready but by the time he is, it could be to late for him. I would keep talking to him about placing your mom and make him see that his own safety is a concern.

Your mom has Alzheimer's. Questioning whether or not it's "intentional" doesn't really matter when you're dealing with a brain that is broken.

I agree with you that you are going back home. Your dad is in denial. Be honest with your dad that you cannot help him as long as he chooses to keep her home. You can help him figure out their finances. You can help him get in-home help - housekeeping, meals, etc. - so that he doesn't have to do everything. You can help him find memory care. But you can't help and enable him to do nothing.

Your dad deserves some peace and enjoyment of life however much of it he has left. Caregivers often die before those for whom they are caring. Express these concerns to your dad. Maybe that will nudge him in the direction he needs to go i.e. placing his wife into the level of care she clearly needs. Her needs are only going to increase.

In my experience, dementia/ALZ takes what a person used to be and makes it worse. Takes a mean person and makes her meaner, for instance. Like my mother. She's 94 with moderately advanced dementia. She's always been mean as a snake but able to HIDE it behind a pretty little mask. Now with dementia, that mask is deteriorating & the sharp teeth are harder to hide. The mask slips more and more and the things that come out of her mouth are uglier & uglier. Cursing too, like your mother. It's always been there.......just hidden. Now we get to see the REAL JoAnn in all her glory & boy howdy, it's ugly.

My father was a good man; had the patience of a saint. He was never 'good enough' in my mother's book, either, and she let him know it. Daily. Yet he stuck up for her ALL the time. Drove me nuts. She'd treat him like dirt under her feet and if I called her out on it, right to her defense he'd jump!!! Then she'd put on the Poor Me Act and off we'd go, straight to the nuthouse. So I'd back off and let dad deal with the mess himself. That's what he wanted, right? He made that bed, so he could sleep in it! Towards the end of his life, as her dementia worsened and so did her sharp tongue & teeth, dad got aggravated more and more, and the fights got pretty bad between them. More than a few times my DH and I were called to their AL to break up the fights and calm them both down. Then dad passed away and mom pretty much didn't bat an eye. She was too excited about the man down the hall who invited her on a cruise. Nice, huh?

Anyway. My mother was always a mean and nasty woman when I was a kid and she's a meaner and nastier woman now that I'm 64. When she gets into one of her tirades, I leave her presence or hang up the phone (she lives in Memory Care but 'doesn't belong there', of course). I don't put up with her nonsense b/c she knows FULL WELL what she's doing and gets joy from it. She pokes me like crazy and gets a kick out of doing so! I don't have to take it, though, and neither do you. If your father wants to stand in the fire, that's HIS prerogative. Just like it was my father's.

When your father reaches the end of his rope, he'll be calling you to ask for help. That's when he'll be ready to cry Uncle and you can actually do something to help him. In the meanwhile, he's a glutton for punishment and willing to put up with his wife's behavioral histrionics, as he's proven for all this time.

Good luck!

Has your Mom been evaluated for UTI? What suggestions have you made to Dad other than placement in facility? What ideas does he have for help? Is the care of mom manageable for him under normal circumstances? You say Mom has ALWAYS been very difficult. Despite that your Dad and she have stayed together, and that is his choice. I would simply cut your visit short, and do let your father know in private that you are open to help him when he decides your Mom should have further evaluation, or ask him to let you know how you can help him. You cannot make the decision for him. It is his to make. I would not visit a lot if your visits agitate your Mom. This may be harder for your Dad, or it may make his life easier. Ask him.

Thank you! I feel guilty, but I am going to go back home. I will come back if my dad is willing to take next steps. Thank you for taking the time to respond. This has been very stressful.

I am sorry you and your dad are going through all this with your mom. I agree she should be placed in memory care. Her disease will only progress and get worse .Perhaps you should have a family meeting with her primary care and discuss placement, social service should get involved. Sad situation. You dad is devoted to her but in her best interest she really needs professionals to help her. Sending a prayer to both you and your dad. Hope things get settled soon.



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"I feel she should be in memory care for her own safety and the safety of my dad,"

Has she physically hurt your dad yet?

Do you live in the the area or are you visiting them?

These episodes are completely unprovoked?

What, you're all sitting there peacefully watching t.v. or eating your suppers, and out of the blue she chucks the salt cellar at you?

My guess is that by completely unprovoked, you actually mean completely unjustified. You can be sure that, in her mind, there is provocation. No doubt nobody else would see it that way, but that's not the issue. She does.

Alzheimer's Disease on top of an unaddressed, unchallenged and presumably undiagnosed personality disorder, or at least difficult personality traits: you're not going to solve that problem in a hurry. But what you can do is shift your focus to protecting your father.

Write a list: what are their respective care and support needs?

I am so sorry that you are dealing with this, especially since she has always been temperamental. I feel for your dad too. It is a shame that you and your father are walking on eggshells all of time.

What do you think it would take to convince your dad to consider placing your mom in memory care? How have you approached this so far?

You are kind to help your father. He certainly needs help. I understand this but what if you told him something like, ‘Dad, this isn’t working for any of us and I can no longer help you.’ Do you think that would cause him to consider placement? I realize that it isn’t easy to step away from helping him but it may be what it takes to force him into placing your mom.

Have you contacted Council on Aging in your area, or a social worker to speak to your dad? Is he in denial of her condition? Does he know that this is a burden on you? I know that you want to help but he’s asking for a lot from you. Stepping away doesn’t mean that you don’t love your parents. It actually means that you want the very best for them.

Wishing you peace as you navigate your way through this challenging situation.

Memory issues tend to break down people's social barriers, so if she was mean before, it will just get worse and worse. It sounds like she should be in MC. I'd just stop helping, and leave her presence the second she says anything cruel.

Can't control what she says, but you can control what you do.