My mom is trying to beat the system again, where do I turn? How can this still be happening?
I found out 2 days ago that my mom had started the process to try to have her FL driver's license reinstated. I thought this would be impossible to do, because she got a DUI in PA in early Sept and when she refused the mandatory PA blood test her PA license was immediately suspended. (she had a month or so to turn it in, which she did). The actual criminal DUI part has not been addressed by a judge yet and is likely months away at best.
Yesterday after coming home with her from a long eye appointment (where she was supposedly told her vision is good, and good enough to drive!) I calmly told her -- on this driving stuff, you can't do anything for at least a year, your DL in PA is suspended. She came back at me that her LAWYER told her it's okay because the two states are separate. I tell her that can't be true, I ask to talk to her lawyer, she refuses.
I ask her what doctor filled out the form saying she is okay to drive, thinking she couldn't have even got that far. She informs me she had to get THREE to say it was okay, and she proudly announces she did get three, 2 in PA and the doctor in Sarasota, her old town (for any of you remember that out of town visit with her old neurologist a few weeks ago).
Then she shows me a paper she just got from the FL DMV. I could NOT believe my eyes! It said they received the info from the doctors and basically gave her the green light to get the eye check, written test, and driving test, and if she passes, she is good to go.
I try to say she will have to lie on her application because it will ask about any suspensions in other states, and she tells me it's okay. Her LAWYER told her it's two separate states. Things go south fast. She screams THREE doctors said I am good to drive and only the ONE "That you LOVE" thinks I shouldn't. I walk towards the door and on the way out I call her a liar as she slams the door on me.
I get home she calls, I let it go to VM. Check VM, and she tells me she just talked to her lawyer and it is okay for me to call him, leaves the number. I call the lawyer and first thing I ask is Can you tell me how it is legal for my mother to drive in FL with a DUI suspension in PA??
This jacka** then tells me that he has lots of clients that get out of state DUI's and if they have a valid license in another state, they can drive in that state. I go OFF and he back tracks and says that he implied if a person had a LEGAL, valid license, and that he doesn't practice in FL and can't advise her on FL. Then when I ask about the suspension he tells me that until the DUI goes through the current suspension is considered "administrative" and likely won't show up if anything is searched. I was fuming so hard I had to hang up. I plan to file a complaint against him with the PA bar when this is over.
My mom has the written part of her test scheduled today. It's 45 mins away, the same place we took her to get her ID card. I refuse to take her or help her do any of this, but I fear she will be able to get away with it by passing these tests, and even the driving test. I am at my wits end. I woke up in tears today, and have no idea what to do next.
22 Answers
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Thank God that EP can relax and that her mom won’t be on the road being a danger to herself and others.
We got back to her place safely, but in the 3 miles (maybe) that she drove we nearly caused 4-5 accidents. She simply wasn't capable of driving in traffic. On the 'road test' that the DMV does, she would have passed. It was all the other people on the road--not her.
She lives with YB. I went and told him she should not be driving--he was aware of it and DID disconnect the battery and whatever else he could--and then remained 'too busy' to fix her car.
She had hip surgery so she could return to driving. The surgery took her from using a cane, occasionally, to needing a walker full time. She still insisted she could drive, so YB had her go out to the car and 'prove' to him she could.
Well, she couldn't even get the doors open and her walker stowed, much less start and drive the car. She was furious--as this was her very last hope for independence. Her own mom quit driving at about 75 and used cabs and mass transit and I never heard her complain.
Somehow I became the 'bad guy' in all this. I didn't care, b/c she was a holy terror on the roads--just lost the ability to drive. She would NOT take the Sr Citizen bus, she would NOT take Ubers...I understood. But MY concern was that she'd hit a person or cause a really bad accident. Every inch of her car was dented, scratched, the side view mirrors were all duct taped on. If a car could talk--this one would beg for mercy.
It's so hard when our LO's see that failing--and they WANT to be independent, and it's not like we are being mean--we're being cautious.
Nothing to feel guilty about. Let her be mad. That has been hard for me--when mother gets mad at me, I have to step out for a while.
If u haven't yet, u may want to find out what resourses are available to you transportation wise. Office of Aging should provide buses or know where she can find transportation.
When Mom is refused a license, I would get rid of her car. Either sell it or move it. Out if sight out of mind. I told my Mom when we sold hers, if she got her license again, she could get a new car. She was 84 at the time with Dementia and neuropathy in her ankles. Neither would get
better.
Don't go silent on your brother and sister. Believe me, there are worse problems ahead that you all need to be together for.
Your brother and sister don't argue with your mom. They don't feed her narcissistic need for a floor show of which she is the headliner.
"That's nice" can be a neutral response to whatever is being thrown at you.
Glad you leave when you feel yourself being triggered by her manipulations.
(((((Hugs)))))
I am an over-responsible type myself, so I GET how you got into this situation.
Write to mom's pcp. The authority and responsibility to stop your mother from getting her license rests with the medical community and the State of Florida.
It is NOT within your locus of control.
But he won't need to stop her from getting a license, the state of FL will do that, I was able to make sure of that yesterday, thankfully. A woman at the DMV looked up my mom's info and she is already flagged from PA because of the interstate compact. The DMV woman assured me she can not get a license in FL while she has a PA license under suspension.
So all of these hoops my mom is jumping through, it will all be for nothing.
Disconnect the battery..
Disconnect the Coil Wire. No spark, no engine start/run.
For older Cars pull the distributor rotor. Same as #2.
Disconnect the Ballast Resistor.. car will start but not run.
Pull the starter relay or its fuse/circuit breaker.
Refuse to drive her to get the test. Put on YOUR thinking cap and see to it that she NEVER gets behind the wheel of a car again.
Nails work great for creating flat tires, too, by the way.
YOU, my dear, are smarter than SHE is. Lawyers or no lawyers.
Good luck!
My mom can't drive. We have all the keys. DH used to own a car repair shop he can disable the car no problem.
I'm not enabling any of my mom's efforts to get a DL. The histrionics are on blast but I either walk out or hang up. When the state of FL tells her she can not get a FL license, even if she was the best driver in the world due to her DUI suspension in PA maybe it will dawn on her that I was telling her the truth all along.
Then again, probably not.
The neuro in FL did report her in 2019 and that is how she lost her FL license that she has yet to get back. She didn't get reported in PA for that license, just got a DUI instead.
LOL- just typing the ridiculousness of that made me laugh. Briefly.
I suppose if it got bad enough, you could resign as her POA and leave her on her own. But I remember from your story that you are legally connected with the condo she lives in. I remember you said that was a mistake. If there's any way to at least decouple you from her with that condo, it would leave you with more options going forward. If she won't allow you to protect her, at least you would then be able to protect yourself.
It's not clear to me either. One of my plans for the early months of 2021 is to speak to an elder care attorney, and one of my questions will be when does incompetence enter the picture?
I'm also going to make sure my mom's primary care doctor is kept up to speed on what's going on with her life so things are documented.
I made mistakes when I bought my mom's condo, no doubt, I should have led her straight to senior housing! But what's done is done, and when she is ready for a care facility she'll go from the condo she lives in now. It's not feasible to move her (if she agreed) to some place else. There is no other place. My siblings won't deal with her. No friends would take this on.
My current goal is to see it through and I hope I can. I'll utilize grey rock and outside help, and when that no longer works I will place her in MC.
How's your situation going? Sorry to hear you can relate to mine! I hope you are holding up okay.
As long as you don't stick around for the abuse, I think you've got a good plan. Don't engage with her arguments. I think I might have introduced some "grey rock" technique when she said you were to blame (i.e., saying "hmmmm, is that so?".
Sadly it appears she is not acknowledging her deficits (anosognosia?) which makes everything more difficult. ((((((Hugs)))))).
My brother didn't help matters when he texted to tell me he talked to her and she is definitely actively trying to get her license back. Only to follow with how she might be able to, and repeating the "administrative" suspension crap saying it won't be in the data base and basically gave the impression that Hey, if she can get away with it, let her go. Needless to say I did not text him back.
I never did hear from my sister.
Barb I don't think my mom has anosognosia, she knows she has issues.
Stop discussing the subject with her? Not sure what you mean there? She is taking a lot of action right now trying to get a license so I have to have some discussions. I try to have them on her level so she gets it. I'm not enabling any of her efforts to get this license. I leave or hang up when she gets abusive.
What else can I do, or should be doing?
You say she says you don't want her to get a license. Truth is that you DON'T and for good reason. Can you not tell her that. It seems the mixed messaging is bad, too. You are calling DMV and her Lawyer, but not wanting her to know that. I just think that honesty here with her would be better. Either step away and let the authorities handle it, or do as you are doing and let her know you feel she isn't safe to drive and isn't completely able, and you will be doing these things?
I gave up my own license because I seldom drove, and given that, and this city with the hills, I just didn't feel I SHOULD drive. But I am thinking of my own daughter, and me 78, her 58, and thinking of her working round me without just saying "Mom, you need not to drive any more. I am sorry. I need you to know I am going to speak to this lawyer; I think he is taking advantage of you. I worry you will kill someone, or yourself, or both. I am calling DMV and reporting the DUI. It is illegal and immoral to try to get around it. You can hate me, but that's what I am doing." And then let the poop hit the fan. Perhaps I wouldn't talk to her. That is as it would be. But she will have been honest with me. I would trust her (yeah but hide things I guess).
Just some random thoughts. There are folks here who know your story a good deal more and better, so stick with their opinions. They know your Mom's history, where I may have read and don't remember. It isn't clear to me if there is dementia involved or just difficult personality disorder.
This has to be so tough. You must feel so torn. As I said, my bro lay bleeding and muttering he knew all along. All the two years more he lived, when he and I talked, he said he was so grateful he didn't hurt anyone else. He lived where he would have had to rely on poor transit; was horrified at the thought of no car, of assisted living. And I lived in another part of the State and had no idea what was happening and how much he was failing until the accident. Wow, my heart goes out to both you and your Mom.
Yes, my mom has dementia. She had a neuro-psych eval in early 2019 and was diagnosed with Major neurocognitive disorder. Her results were bad enough that her doctor immediately reported her to the DMV, on his own. Her dementia is not in doubt by anyone who knows her, especially now as things have progressed.
Apparently it's true she managed to find 3 doctors to tell the FL DMV they felt she was a candidate for re-testing. I highly suspect she did some doctor shopping. None of them are local. 2 from PA, and one 8 hours away in her old town and she had to purchase a plane ticket to go to the appointment.
But it doesn't matter, even if she could pass everything with flying colors and be deemed driver of the year she can't get a license anywhere because of the PA DUI. That suspension will be in the interstate compact for as long as it exists, which in her case is at least a year. So.... dementia or not she can't drive.
But, there is no doubt about the dementia. Her reaction to all of this, what she is saying and doing, and not understanding actually demonstrate her dementia! But she doesn't realize this.
So, unfortunately honesty didn't work. I tried that as compassionately as I could. She just got abusive. She isn't seeing this clearly at all.
I was hoping the DMV would tell her NO yesterday but since she arrived without the paperwork she needed she's going to attempt to go back today.
Now I'm bracing for what will happen today as we have a re-do of yesterday.
By the time you add up fuel, insurance, maintenance and repairs - not even counting fines and penalties and admin - plus the capital costs: that's an awful lot of Uber your mother could easily afford if she didn't run her own car.
Oh boy. I hope she stops seeing you as the enemy eventually :(
This will not stop until the state tells her NO.
Oh BTW Country you asked about her car. It is still here, and we have the keys. All the keys.
She called me yesterday so upset because she Ubered to the DMV, which was $30 each way since she did not go to the closest one, she made the first appointment she could get and didn't care that it was further. One she got there she told me she couldn't take her test because she "forgot some paper" so she had to reschedule for today which she claimed she was going to do as soon as we hung up.
I calmly told her "well there is no rush" and she went OFF. She started screaming that HER LAWYER told her that this is happening because her daughter doesn't want her driving! I was in shock. I said that can't be true and she kept repeating it until I said I have to go now, and hung up.
She then sent a text insisting there was nothing wrong with her and she can drive, and saying she didn't want me and DH taking her places and other things that were just sad. Also repeating that this was MY fault.
I wish she wasn't struggling so hard with this, being abusive, etc.... but she is SOOO desperate. It's like her life will end if she can't drive.
I texted both my siblings and told them. I also sent them a copy of her text to me so they could see her ridiculous claims that her lawyer said I am the reason she can't drive. I literally have NOTHING to do with her getting a DUI in PA.
I asked them to call her to check in with her because she is so distraught, and I'm her whipping post again. They both said they would and would keep me posted today.
I just want this drama to be over, for her and in turn me.
My mom won't know I called, she will just be told a license can't be issued until PA is resolved. End of story.
Thanks Barb for always being there, and you too JoAnn (and everyone). I am so relieved she will not be able to get back on the road.
And I will tell you guys something, her lawyer was WRONG, giving me that BS about a "administrative" suspension not showing up, and how states don't really check the interstate compact. I just found out they DO, and I am still fuming that he gave my mom that info and caused her to think she could do this, and for what he told me. It caused a lot of grief. When her DUI case is over I'm reporting him to the bar, and plan to write a horrible review on him online!
The Department of Motor Vehicles will do all the testing. If Mom passes and if the interstate checking on the DUI is not a problem, then your Mom will get a license. And no, you should not drive her or participate in any way, nor should you be in her car when she is driving if she is impaired.
So sorry. Not everything can be missed. You can call the DMV and ask if there is anything else you can do. But with the letters, there perhaps is not. Wishing you good luck and sure hope you will update us.
You realise she's enjoying this? Stop playing her game.
And, by the way, *what* is she planning to drive? Where's her car?
I would call DMV and give them a heads up that Mom has a DUI pending. She may not have put that on her application. After that, not much you can do. If she passes all the tests, again not much u can do. But, I would not help her by taking her there for testing. I would do nothing to make things easy for her. Just pray if she is in an accident, that no one else is involved.
This is a special driver evaluation that was requeisted by the neuro, right? This is not a regular driving eam. This is an exam to check reflexes, not the exam that 16 year olds take. At least, that is my take on reading the Florida regs.
https://www.dementiacarecentral.com/caregiverinfo/driving-problems/#:~:text=Someone%20with%20Alzheimer%E2%80%99s%20or%20a%20related%20dementia%20can,to%20admit%20they%20shouldn%E2%80%99t%20be%20behind%20the%20wheel.
FloridaFlorida has no laws against driving with dementia specifically but obviously has laws about medical conditions which impact a person’s ability to drive safely. Physicians and family member can request a re-evaluation of the driver’s ability with the Florida Department of Highway Safety and Motor Vehicles. An advisory board reviews each case, including an opinion by the driver’s doctor, to determine next steps.
You should call "the doctor that YOU love" and ask him/her to contact Florida DMV IF she manages to get her license re-instated.
This is her doctor's job, not yours.
In her mind her "current" and ONLY neurologist is the one she flew to see a few weeks back. Like that's normal. Who has a doctor they need to get a plane ticket to go see? And he just gave her some kind of letter of support after a 30 min office visit!
What I can do is talk to her Primary Care. Thankfully I have HIPPA rights with him, and his office is well aware I'm having ongoing challenges with her. They are also affiliated with the neuro who did the eval in 2019.
So... thank you. That's what I will do. I will ask him to notify the DMV if she somehow manages to pull off getting another license.
I'm still going to call the DMV today though and see if I can stop it by having them check far enough they can see the "administrative" suspensions as well as the regular ones. I don't see why there should be a difference! I'm hoping that might work. The longer this drags on the harder it is on everyone.
You stop answering her phone calls or knocks.
She is NOT your child and you are not responsible for her happiness or safety.
You think she can pass a driving test? If she can, then this all the fault of the state of Florida.
Her muscle memory (I think that's what it is called) for driving is still there. But like the doctor who went over her evaluation in early 2019 told her other parts of her brain are not working and anything unexpected she is at high risk for not being able to react and getting into an accident.
I feel like I have to try and stop this, I just fear I won't be able to, again. I'm going to call the DMV where she is scheduled for the written test today, hope that I get a person who will listen to me and help, and see if that works.
I'm not taking her anywhere while she is trying to pull this crap.