I try to get her interested in other things. She can't drive, so everything is catalogs. I tried throwing them out, but the mail comes while I'm at work. She gets hundreds of them. I'm struggling to pay for her very expensive meds, incontinence supplies, and all of our expenses. I've even had to clean out my savings and starting on my 401K. I beg her to stop but she says it's between me and my 2 brothers to figure it out " after all, I paid everything for you when you were kids."
What you need to realize is that YOU need to stop bleeding money.
Say "no".
She'll get mad.
So what?
She threatens to leave? That's fine.
"Get a Power of Attorney (see an eldercare attorney) so you can control some of the things."
You don't "GET" a POA, the person MUST appoint you AND must be capable of signing legal documents AND is doing it of her free will.
"If she runs out, simply say there is no money - she spent it. Let her be without supplies, etc."
This is BAD advice, for several reasons:
1) WE don't know what medications she is on - they could be life-saving, aka she could die without them
2) No briefs, she could end up urinating on OP's thing, since she lives in OP's house.
"See if she can be placed or have a caretaker."
There is NO legal way to "place" someone, EVEN those with dementia. Unless she would go agreeable, this is NOT an option.
Caretaker? To do what? A caretaker would have ZERO control over what mom spends her money on and would NOT be able to force her to stop, same reason as above - it isn't legal and would likely just make the situation impossible.
"...walk away and don't look back."
I am SO thankful you are not my relative or POA. Heartless. This is still her mother, whether she has no impulse control or not.
One time on vacation, long before the internet, we were in a shop and the ex wrote his name in their customer book, but he added III (as in the Third, which he was not.) Sure enough, not long after we received this kind of stuff from other places addressed to Mr. Joe Schmo III. So, we knew the "source."
Now data mining is BIG business! Some places collect/pay for these lists, but plenty can be found online too. I've received mail here address to the ex, who NEVER lived in this place (I've only been here 7 years), divorced over 35 years at the point, and he was killed in an accident 6-7 years ago! I've also received some in my son's name, and he has never lived here either.
Some of the online sites that have your information WILL show others from past and present relationships. One showed my son's ex, who also never lived here. They split up over 10 years ago. Look up yourself, see who they list as relatives, associates and known to you!
If you are living in her home, move out. It's easier to not have to take care of everything. If she lives with you, maybe it's time she is moved into a home or let a brother take her in, if they want to provide for her.
We do owe our parents for all they've done for us. However, care does not involve frivilous items. No more shelling out the money, unless you want to do this for your Mom. I help my Mom and I've told her that many of her supplements and hair products have to be cut down because she can't afford them.
Call each catalog company and tell them to take you off their mailing list.
To clarify this, a guardian would be responsible for MANAGING her finances and using HER funds to pay bills and debts, if and when there's enough. Being guardian would NEVER make anyone responsible for another person's debt. Same for POA. There are court appointed guardians who are not family. I seriously doubt any of them would sign up for this job if they had to assume another person's debts and bills! Same for POA - we can appoint someone other than family for this duty, generally it would be an attorney or fiduciary, but the point is we MANAGE for the person, we don't assume their debts.
Being co-signer on anything WILL result in having to pay or deal with it somehow, as you would have accepted the responsibility, perhaps without realizing it, but you will have to deal with it if you signed!
As for you mom trying to guilt you that she footed YOUR bills, welp, that's parenthood, not your job. Put a stop to the shopping (hoarding?) and urge her to save her SS and even chip in for her own expenses; otherwise you're her ATM.
Others have given advice about seeking help paying for her meds and briefs. My mother had sufficient income and assets (she had dementia, so I took over all finances - she did buy stuff before that, but not a lot, however it might have gotten worse!), so it wasn't an issue and I don't have experience with that.
TAKE ACTION:
1) sign up for a PO box and have your mail forwarded to it. this has to be less expensive than what you're paying now
2) I would take the mailbox down as well, because things can slip through - they will hold it for a bit at the USPS office for you to pickup.
3) apply to be Rep Payee at the local SS office
4) note that forwarding is only good for 1 year, so change addresses if this might take longer. Do NOT update the catalogs, etc.
5) ASAP stop using your funds to pay for her meds and briefs. Use her SS funds.
6) note that federal mail won't be forwarded, so get cracking on the Rep Payee, so you can use the PO box. It will put you in charge of Medicare as well.
Having all mail directed to the PO box will eliminate her getting new catalogs. Throw out all the others in the house!!! Contacting them, you may be able to stop them, at least some (others have provided methods to do that. Try those.)
Are these "lines of credit" just with the catalog companies? If so, then just make those minimum payments. If she has any credit cards, try to find them and "misplace" them. If at all possible, create online accounts and freeze them. Since you are providing everything, she doesn't need them.
Since there's no mention of cognitive issues, POAs aren't really going to help, however once you are approved to be Rep Payee, she won't have access to her SS income. NONE. Only you can access the special account that has to be set up (first payment after approval comes as a check, then you can contact the SS office with the new account info and have it deposited.)
You are NOT responsible for her debts. Not now, not after she passes. For her current debts, make the minimum payments from HER SS, just to keep them "satisfied." If she passes and still owes them, too bad, so sad for them. YOU don't pay for it. If there's left over each month, you *could* apply a bit more to these debts, focusing on the high interest rate ones, or smaller ones that you can get rid of sooner, then apply that minimum to help pay down the others. I wouldn't use a lot to pay them. Minimum will chip away at it, but not likely get rid of it. NOT a concern at this point.
I wouldn't focus on having her pay rent or for care, just for the med and briefs. I'd consider taking a little each month to pay back what you've wasted on her already, and maybe some for food, but keep it low. You'll have to report yearly to SS on how you used her funds for her (can be done online through your SS account) and if she ever needs Medicaid, large payments would be suspect. I'm sure you could prove it was legit, but why go there? Just keep good records on how you spend her SS funds.
"I've even had to clean out my savings and starting on my 401K."
This is NOT good. At your age, it is time to maximize what you can sock away for your own future. You should not be p*ssing it away on her stupidity.
"...she says it's between me and my 2 brothers to figure it out..."
Okay then, figure it out by implementing these changes. She won't like it, but TOO bad! YOU don't like what she's doing, and that is having a huge impact on you. The impact of you making these changes and taking charge will only take away her ability to waste money on crap. Get her a library card and let her read books, or newspapers. She's not interested? Fine, sit there and watch TV.
TAKE CHARGE!!!
Good luck!
Agreed OP should NOT be spending her own savings and 401k to subsidize mom's irresponsibility.
*First, get a good idea of what mother’s genuine needs are costing a month or fortnight – meds, depends, etc. I’d include a contribution toward household expenses including food and utilities, but that’s up to you. See the lawyer yourself to set up the next step.
*Second, go with mother to the lawyer to get a direct debit organised to transfer that amount to your own account immediately the SS hits your mother’s account. Mother signs up at the lawyer’s office. I know that you can do that where I am in Oz, and it is standard for transfers for rent etc from pension payments, but you will have checked with the lawyer the options where you are.
*Third, tell your mother the amount of ‘spending money’ she has per SS payment after paying for her own expenses. That’s like the pocket money she gave you as a child. If she exceeds her ‘spending money’ she won’t be able to pay her shopping bills, and that she will probably be made bankrupt.
*Fourth, if you want, send a standard email or snail mail letter to all the sites she shops from, saying exactly that – her spending limits and her likely bankruptcy. Keep copies of every one to use in future when it becomes necessary.
I know full well that this is not fool proof – mother could cancel the arrangement etc – but formalising it may make far more impact on mother than anything you can do on your own. Good luck!
Catch-22
I also doubt you're going to find a doctor who will just declare someone unfit because you ask, even if they are irresponsible with finances. Being irresponsible isn't the same as incapable, otherwise there'd be a percentage of younger people declared unfit!!!
DO NOT TAKE ANY MORE MONEY OUT OF YOUR RETIREMENT ACCTS.
Make her a list of personal items that she needs to buy each month. Basically, you have created this spending monster by providing what she needs and allowing her money to go toward things that are not priority. Show her what each thing costs and after she pays for these items, she has XX dollars left for catalog shopping.
She put the ball in your court by saying you and siblings figure it out, so figure it out. Contact a credit counseling company in your area to consolidate all her debt, tear up the cards, and one payment per month the counseling company will dole out to her creditors. As one is paid off, they pay more toward the others. They also have the ability to work out a 'settlement' amount with each credit account. Then stick to it.
She may have paid for all your basic needs when you were a kid, but I doubt she handed all of you a credit card and said have a ball - I'll pick up the tab. I doubt she took you to the toy store and said - spend whatever you want even if I can't buy toilet paper or pay the rent this month. No problem. She is addicted to the shopping. It passes her time and she gets pleasure as the packages roll in.
You might also put in a change of address for the magazines to go to a siblings house. Because she has so many accts, you can bet her spending habits have created a vicious circle of those companies selling her info over and over again. Not to mention, many of the catalogs have different names but are really all the same company. Do what you can to reduce the catalogs coming to her.
It might be helpful to talk to her bank about the financial pickle she has gotten herself into. They might give her a loan at a much lower percentage to consolidate debt and get rid of all those accounts. Then, use her money to pay the loan off. Otherwise, stop her using all these accounts. Pay off either the one with the lowest balance or the highest percent first. Do that while paying minimum on the rest. In time, you will have this cleared. Again: DO NOT USE YOUR MONEY TO CLEAR THIS UP; use hers.
Do not let whatever excuses she gives you sway your resolve. This is a problem that needs to be taken care of promptly.
Also she IS the PARENT not you. It's the PARENT'S responsibility to provide for the children they bring into the world. It's not the childrens' responsibility to provide for them. Please tell her this as well,
So the solution to your problem is pretty straightforward.
STOP paying for her meds and her incontinence supplies and any other necessities for her that you're paying for. If shopping is more important than her medications to her or her incontinence supplies, then so be it. Don't back down.
She says it's up to you and your brothers to figure it out. Ask her how much purchasing she thinks she'll be doing if you and your brothers figure it out and the answer is a nursing home? This should be enough to curb her spending a bit.
Your mother is behaving like a spoiled brat child. Treat her like one.
What if she was living in a nursing home or assisted living home she would have to do this on her own pay for everything that is the way you have to look at it.
I would tell my brothers the same thing we don't have the money to support her wants so its time MOM steps up to pay for her own living.
Our parents raised us to be what we are today and I know my mother sees it that I don't have to pay her back for raising me. I would tell her she is on her own as to meds, if she really wants to she can get her own meds and living expenses.
Prayers that you stop enabling your mom and find her a place to go if she doesn't change her ways. Stop feeling guilty. Take care of yourself first.
https://money.cnn.com/2014/06/19/pf/inherited-debt-adult-children/
The only debt mentioned that any adult child might be responsible for (aka required to pay from your own funds) is:
1) anything YOU signed onto, such as joint credit cards or loans
2) some states might require payback of medical/NH bills
Best to read through the whole article.
All other debt would have to come from the estate, if there is one. If there's not enough in the estate, there are "priorities", such as funeral homes get paid before other debt. If there's no estate, they can't get a dime for any of her debt. That doesn't stop collections agencies from harassing you, which isn't legal, but too many will stop at nothing to get something! NO NO NO NO, do NOT let them hassle you and NEVER agree to pay anything from your funds. Legally they are only allowed to contact the executor of the estate, but if there's no "estate", there's no executor.
They will do what's called skip-tracing, finding contacts who might have any relationship whatsoever with the person in the past. This is SO much easier for them now, with the internet. Thankfully there was only one time this happened to me - my son's former owed some money for medical. She had been gone for at least a year or two, but they called my home phone inquiring if I knew her. Yes, sort of, but I have ZERO responsibility for her and have no idea where she is now or how to contact her. At least that collection agency person was reasonable and accepted that. Never heard from them again. She'd already pretty much sucked me dry, paying for various things to help them out (I started referring to her as the Black Hole - she'll suck down your time, your money, your patience and you'll never see any of them again!!!)
I would take away all her credit cards so she can't charge any more.
Tell her Social Security is to help pay for her a place to live, food and medication.
Let her know that she can get $100 a month Allowance to be spent as she pleases and the rest would be used for her care.
Tell her if she doesn't agree to this, then you will be happy to let her tour 2-3 Nursing Homes for her to choose to live.
Also, perhaps you said, but if this is credit card debt (?) and those cards are in her name ONLY; THEN STOP PAYING NOW. Yes, she'll default but so be it. If you have or can secure a POA, go to the bank and take over her account. Set up on-line banking so you can pay on-line directly for ONLY the things she needs. Take the check book and credit cards away from her. She'll have a fit, but do it.
For low income seniors as others have noted, each state has a low income subsidy Medicare Part D plan she likely would qualify for or perhaps she'd qualify for Medicaid assuming she has no assets. You should NOT have to be paying out of pocket for expensive meds and many State Medicaid plans will help w/incontinence supplies.
Contact your Area Agency on Aging or get an eldercare attorney to help you navigate some of this. Also, write to each charity to tell them to remove her from their mailing list. Also put her on the "do not contact" list with the direct marketing assn. which will stop most but not all: https://www.dmachoice.org My mom was receiving solicitations from appx 80 organizations and after doing all this we are now down to about 2 "charity junk mail things" which I just throw in the trash now. It took a year, but the incoming mail from these charities has largely stopped. Also, a few bounced checks will also help stop the incoming solicitations.
Put at freeze on her credit with the three credit agencies so she cannot take out any new credit cards. Here is a good article on that: https://www.northwesternmutual.com/life-and-money/you-can-now-freeze-your-credit-for-free/