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I. How We Work in Washington. Based on your preferences, we provide you with information about one or more of our contracted senior living providers ("Participating Communities") and provide your Senior Living Care Information to Participating Communities. The Participating Communities may contact you directly regarding their services. APFM does not endorse or recommend any provider. It is your sole responsibility to select the appropriate care for yourself or your loved one. We work with both you and the Participating Communities in your search. We do not permit our Advisors to have an ownership interest in Participating Communities.
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III. When We Tour. APFM tours certain Participating Communities in Washington (typically more in metropolitan areas than in rural areas.) During the 12 month period prior to December 31, 2017, we toured 86.2% of Participating Communities with capacity for 20 or more residents.
IV. No Obligation or Commitment. You have no obligation to use or to continue to use our services. Because you pay no fee to us, you will never need to ask for a refund.
V. Complaints. Please contact our Family Feedback Line at (866) 584-7340 or ConsumerFeedback@aplaceformom.com to report any complaint. Consumers have many avenues to address a dispute with any referral service company, including the right to file a complaint with the Attorney General's office at: Consumer Protection Division, 800 5th Avenue, Ste. 2000, Seattle, 98104 or 800-551-4636.
VI. No Waiver of Your Rights. APFM does not (and may not) require or even ask consumers seeking senior housing or care services in Washington State to sign waivers of liability for losses of personal property or injury or to sign waivers of any rights established under law.I agree that: A.I authorize A Place For Mom ("APFM") to collect certain personal and contact detail information, as well as relevant health care information about me or from me about the senior family member or relative I am assisting ("Senior Living Care Information"). B.APFM may provide information to me electronically. My electronic signature on agreements and documents has the same effect as if I signed them in ink. C.APFM may send all communications to me electronically via e-mail or by access to an APFM web site. D.If I want a paper copy, I can print a copy of the Disclosures or download the Disclosures for my records. E.This E-Sign Acknowledgement and Authorization applies to these Disclosures and all future Disclosures related to APFM's services, unless I revoke my authorization. You may revoke this authorization in writing at any time (except where we have already disclosed information before receiving your revocation.) This authorization will expire after one year. F.You consent to APFM's reaching out to you using a phone system than can auto-dial numbers (we miss rotary phones, too!), but this consent is not required to use our service.
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Been told by owner of caregivers company that the family isn’t to ask caregivers questions about their loved one and caregivers aren’t to answer any questions from the family. Is this normal?
Absolutely not normal. I require my mom and aunt's caregivers to complete a daily chart and text to me. They may have questions and me as well. We have a lot of communication. How else will you know what is going on.
I created the charts and also ask them to sign at the end of their shifts.
It depends on what "family" If I hired a caregiver to help me with the care of my loved one and someone other than me asked the caregiver a question they can not answer the question or give any information. This is a violation of HIPAA regulations. The caregiver can tell ME what happened that day, what was eaten for lunch, the BM that my "Mr. C" had, any outbursts, how much he slept and any other information that is necessary. But this same information should not be given to anyone else. HOWEVER If I have given the agency permission to give information to my Daughter and Son then yes the information can be given and should be. But this information should not be shared with anyone that I have not designated.
This all depends. If the one being cared for is competent, then she can give family the information.
If the client has a dementia, then the POA that holds the Medical has a right to ask questions and be informed of any problems.
Also, if I was paying for the service then I have a right to ask questions and know of any problems.
But outside that care circle, no one should be asking questions of the aide.
Years ago my MIL went to visit a SIL in the hospital. She came back telling me things she asked and claims the Nurse answered. I told her I was surprised the Nurse answered her because of HIPPA laws. She said "I am her SIL" No matter unless ur listed on the HIPPA form as being allowed to receive info, the Nurse was wrong in telling her anything other than "She is resting comfortably".
I have a family member who claimed to have seen "false" documentation in her sister's nursing home chart. She wanted me to "look into this." First, I am not sure how or *if* she saw her sister's chart since there was no legal authority.
It's possible a computer screen was left up (or a paper chart was left open) and maybe she got a glance at her sister's chart... but what are the odds that the alleged false documentation would just happen to be on that page at that exact moment?
More likely, my family member had an agenda regarding her sister's care. Rather than being honest with me about that, she thought the false documentation allegation would motivate me to get done what she wanted done. Not caring that the staff involved would need to answer for something that probably didn't happen anyway.
I find this strange. My Dads CG had a binder from her company she was to fill out daily as to how the day went,, all the important stuff as it were. And any things we asked she answered. Seems sort of shady to me.
NO! Caregivers should communicate with the family about the person they care for. My MIL's caregiver gives us and my BIL's family updates whenever we ask.
I would be more concerned about the "why" caregivers are not allowed to give updates to family members. If it is a matter of family members with disagreements, updates on health status will not generally not help or hinder the problem. Maybe the caregivers' agency requires a list of family members to prevent scams from happening.
Certainly not. The caregiver should be answering all the questions so family is aware of changes, increasing limits to being in the home, potentially more caregiving hours needed, etc. If the family doesn't ask, how are they to know that needs increase. If they don't talk to family - who the heck do they talk to and how do you know what they relay is correct?? I'd have another talk with the company.
On the other hand - did mom hire these people? Is she sharp mentally? Is it possible she told them NOT to talk to anyone but her??
It depends. Are members of the family wasting the caregivers' time? In the hospital and rehab, they said they preferred to work with one member of the family and have that family member disseminate information to the other family members, particularly when one family member would engage them in lengthy conversations while they were trying to get their work done. In an assisted living or long term care setting, I would hope family members would feel free to ask questions and but if they are conflicting or confrontational on care instructions for the resident that is a whole different concern. There should be a formal care plan in place.
Tpowers As you can see from the replies, your question is vague enough that the answers are not consistent. The answer needs to be based on MORE information from you, specifically WHO hired the caregivers and what is the competency of the person being cared for?
IF someone with POA hired the caregivers for a LO who is no longer competent, then certainly the caregiver(s) should be able AND willing to provide important updates. Other family members who are NOT the POA need to get their updates from the POA, if at all, as it's really none of their business. The non-POA family should not be asking the caregivers about the patient.
IF the LO hired the caregivers themselves, then no, the caregivers should be honoring that person's privacy and NOT answering questions from family members or anyone else. The ONLY exception would be if the LO granted information to be provided to a specific person/people, but if the LO is competent, the LO could relate the information themselves, there would be no need for the family to query the caregivers.
This is the same as being at a medical appointment. IF the patient grants transparency for another person, family or not, in writing, then by all means the doctor's office can share the information. If the patient doesn't grant this, then at NO time should anyone in the doctor's office provide any medical information.
Taking this one step further, if I were to hire someone to help me, I would NOT want my kids asking the caregiver questions about me. If they want info, then they should be asking ME - I decide who gets to be nosy. On the other hand, if I were no longer competent and one was assigned as my health proxy, then yes, that child should be able to ask the caregiver(s) any questions about my health and care needs. Since that child would be responsible for overseeing my care, that child would have a need to know AND is legally my representative. The only reason I would consider it okay for one to share this info with the other child is if that second child is the proxy backup - being informed would be important, in the event that the primary was not able to do the job or was away. Anyone else, family or not, NONEYA.
POA is not the reason why care agencies tell family not to speak to the caregiver aide about their family member. Agencies do this because they want the family and clients to think they're relevant and they can't get by without them. Homecare agencies are middle-men when it comes to caregiver/aides. All they offer is taking a cut of the money collected. I'm not talking about visiting nurses, or physical/occupational therapists who work in the home. They have different jobs and different bosses they answer to. Homecare aides are the ones who are on the job the most and for the longest times. Since they get paid next to nothing for their service, agencies try to keep a tight grip on them out of fear that a good one will get hired privately by a family. Every caregiver/aide who works a private hour in a home takes money away from a care agency.
Yes this is normal practice for homecare agencies, but absolutely ridiculous and I have never known an in-home caregiver (myself included) who has ever abided by such a nonsense rule. The caregiver is the person who is actually caring for and with your loved one. They are the people who can answer your questions because they are the ones who are there every day. Some a$$hole sitting behind a desk at an agency office who's never even met the client, or some nurse who pops in a couple times a week for ten minutes, don't know what's going on with your family member. They can't answer your questions because they aren't there. Your caregiver aides are with your family member day after day and usually for hours on end. Agency administration makes this rule because they want to make sure they're 'kept in the loop' to stay relevant in the care situation. All the agency is is a middle-man who takes a cut of the worker's pay to do absolutely nothing. Also, because they don't want a family with a good caregiver to cut them out and hire that caregiver privately. You want to know how your loved one is getting on, always ask their aides.
Thank you for such a well explained summary of the predatory problematic issue w cg agencies, hopefully some will reflect on this and choose to hire independent as the agencies set all kinds of nonsense policies that only serve their pocketbooks not the reality of day to day care by the person who spends time with them on a regular basis and is most familiar with their schedule, preferences needs and nuances of change in sleep appetite etc
That’s not the going standard with my agency. There’s an online log where me, my husband, and my SIL can look up the coming schedule, and the caregivers leave notes and a checklist of things that they did during their care time. There’s also a section where we can leave notes and chat with the caregiver.
Mind you, we are paying for the PSW, not my MIL. We do not have POA set up yet, but I don’t see what’s the big deal with you asking when was the last time they washed her sheets?
Personally, if you’re paying for it, you’re entitled to it. Otherwise, I’d go shopping for a new service agency.
If your loved one is in a facility and they are saying you can't ask questions about your loved one I would get your loved one out of there fast. Run and don't look back then report them to the state your in. This does not sound like a reputable facility.
If the company does not have its client's permission to share information, the policy is correct. I don't know about normal, exactly, because most clients are happy to allow family members to be informed and involved; but the company is certainly correct not to make that assumption.
We don't have trouble with family so much - although there are points to be alert to, see below - as well-meaning neighbours who'll stop us and ask in the cheeriest tones how our client is getting on. Strictly speaking, we can't even admit we know who they're talking about, not even if they've just seen us emerge from the client's house, let alone update them on how the broken hip is mending. But when you try explaining confidentiality people do get very hurt and offended about it, so I've learned to say "can I let her know who was asking?" and that I'll pass on a message if I see her.
Right, then. Issues with communication and families, including but not limited to: #1 Too many cooks - undated messages from unidentified family members giving different, sometimes mutually exclusive, instructions. #2 Different interpretations - one family member thinks the nurse meant this, the other thinks the nurse meant that. We get caught in the middle. Not fair. #3 Insight/understanding of person you're talking to. Take for example the husband of a lady with terminal cancer, heavily involved in her day to day care and apparently in charge. In discussion with him and daughter (staying to help) I explained how we workers were taking extra-extra care with her skin because of the thinning and fragility commonly caused by steroids. Husband horrified: had no idea this could happen, wanted to stop steroids. Fortunately daughter headed him off and explained that the steroids were vital to keeping the tumour under control, I added that the risks and benefits would have been carefully weighed by the wife's oncology team. Then I kicked myself all the way home (twenty miles) for having been so dim as not to check what he understood first before I opened my big mouth.
So, guidelines:
If you have any questions about the company's service, call the company. If you have any questions about your loved one's condition, ask your loved one. If LO is in no state to answer, ask LO's permission to ask her medical, nursing, and care teams. If you have positive or negative feedback to pass on - comments, complaints, compliments, concerns - the caregivers should have a procedure for doing this - that is, they can take messages even if they can't answer your questions. But go easy on them. You are not their client.
With so many people, on this forum, involved in caregiving I am shocked at the lack of basic privacy knowledge. It is called HIPPA and is the guideline for protecting all of our healthcare information. No facility should ever release personal and private info to anyone who asks. Patient confidentiality is course 101. Each of us has the right to determine who has access to our very private and personal situation. There is a standard form, called Release of Information, that we can and should complete. It is not the responsibility of any doctor's office, hospital, facility or caregiver to determine, or get involved, in the complicated family dynamics that exist. As a former CNA and HHA I can assure you that getting into pissing contests with families was a very needless part of my job. It had nothing to do with the "agency", "agency power" or "agency money/profit". Illness and pending death are extremely difficult and heart wrenching situations. Unfortunately many familial control and power play scenarios rear their ugly heads. Then there is the age old game of telephone. Mom starts out with a simple rash and by the time it is passed on by Bob & Carol & Ted & Alice her leg is being amputated tomorrow! No way do I want to get into the middle of that. Tell Bob and let him discuss with the family. Summation=Complete a "Release of Information" form. It's for your protection. Stay safe and find peace.
Absolutly Not Normal!!! Run away as fast as you can from this Care Company! You and the Caregiver you hire should answer questions about the person they are taking care of.
But, there really should be one spokes person of the family asking questions and getting a report from Caregiver.
Not every family member bombarding Caregiver with questions.
and why not? they are taking care of YOUR family member and YOU are entitled to know what is going on with them (especially if you don't live close enough to visit periodically). Even if you go into a nursing facility, they have to tell you about your loved one even if not a POA (I would assume). how dare they keep information from you. I would check into another caregiving company. wishing you luck.
My impression on this was that it could be a scope of practice issue? Depending on the types of questions being asked by the family, maybe the hired caregiver does not have the proper medical qualifications to answer what's being asked? Of course, the caregiver should be explaining this if it's the case. But I could see a caregiver being asked about recovery times, med interactions, common complications, etc and then caregiver says "You have to ask the doctor that" and family interprets it as dodging the question and the owner backs it up that the question should not have been asked of that person. It snowballs from there and then family feels they can't ask questions and everyone is upset. Just a thought I had.
By proceeding, I agree that I understand the following disclosures:
I. How We Work in Washington.
Based on your preferences, we provide you with information about one or more of our contracted senior living providers ("Participating Communities") and provide your Senior Living Care Information to Participating Communities. The Participating Communities may contact you directly regarding their services.
APFM does not endorse or recommend any provider. It is your sole responsibility to select the appropriate care for yourself or your loved one. We work with both you and the Participating Communities in your search. We do not permit our Advisors to have an ownership interest in Participating Communities.
II. How We Are Paid.
We do not charge you any fee – we are paid by the Participating Communities. Some Participating Communities pay us a percentage of the first month's standard rate for the rent and care services you select. We invoice these fees after the senior moves in.
III. When We Tour.
APFM tours certain Participating Communities in Washington (typically more in metropolitan areas than in rural areas.) During the 12 month period prior to December 31, 2017, we toured 86.2% of Participating Communities with capacity for 20 or more residents.
IV. No Obligation or Commitment.
You have no obligation to use or to continue to use our services. Because you pay no fee to us, you will never need to ask for a refund.
V. Complaints.
Please contact our Family Feedback Line at (866) 584-7340 or ConsumerFeedback@aplaceformom.com to report any complaint. Consumers have many avenues to address a dispute with any referral service company, including the right to file a complaint with the Attorney General's office at: Consumer Protection Division, 800 5th Avenue, Ste. 2000, Seattle, 98104 or 800-551-4636.
VI. No Waiver of Your Rights.
APFM does not (and may not) require or even ask consumers seeking senior housing or care services in Washington State to sign waivers of liability for losses of personal property or injury or to sign waivers of any rights established under law.
I agree that:
A.
I authorize A Place For Mom ("APFM") to collect certain personal and contact detail information, as well as relevant health care information about me or from me about the senior family member or relative I am assisting ("Senior Living Care Information").
B.
APFM may provide information to me electronically. My electronic signature on agreements and documents has the same effect as if I signed them in ink.
C.
APFM may send all communications to me electronically via e-mail or by access to an APFM web site.
D.
If I want a paper copy, I can print a copy of the Disclosures or download the Disclosures for my records.
E.
This E-Sign Acknowledgement and Authorization applies to these Disclosures and all future Disclosures related to APFM's services, unless I revoke my authorization. You may revoke this authorization in writing at any time (except where we have already disclosed information before receiving your revocation.) This authorization will expire after one year.
F.
You consent to APFM's reaching out to you using a phone system than can auto-dial numbers (we miss rotary phones, too!), but this consent is not required to use our service.
I created the charts and also ask them to sign at the end of their shifts.
If I hired a caregiver to help me with the care of my loved one and someone other than me asked the caregiver a question they can not answer the question or give any information. This is a violation of HIPAA regulations.
The caregiver can tell ME what happened that day, what was eaten for lunch, the BM that my "Mr. C" had, any outbursts, how much he slept and any other information that is necessary. But this same information should not be given to anyone else.
HOWEVER If I have given the agency permission to give information to my Daughter and Son then yes the information can be given and should be. But this information should not be shared with anyone that I have not designated.
If the one being cared for is competent, then she can give family the information.
If the client has a dementia, then the POA that holds the Medical has a right to ask questions and be informed of any problems.
Also, if I was paying for the service then I have a right to ask questions and know of any problems.
But outside that care circle, no one should be asking questions of the aide.
Years ago my MIL went to visit a SIL in the hospital. She came back telling me things she asked and claims the Nurse answered. I told her I was surprised the Nurse answered her because of HIPPA laws. She said "I am her SIL" No matter unless ur listed on the HIPPA form as being allowed to receive info, the Nurse was wrong in telling her anything other than "She is resting comfortably".
It's possible a computer screen was left up (or a paper chart was left open) and maybe she got a glance at her sister's chart... but what are the odds that the alleged false documentation would just happen to be on that page at that exact moment?
More likely, my family member had an agenda regarding her sister's care. Rather than being honest with me about that, she thought the false documentation allegation would motivate me to get done what she wanted done. Not caring that the staff involved would need to answer for something that probably didn't happen anyway.
I would be more concerned about the "why" caregivers are not allowed to give updates to family members. If it is a matter of family members with disagreements, updates on health status will not generally not help or hinder the problem. Maybe the caregivers' agency requires a list of family members to prevent scams from happening.
On the other hand - did mom hire these people? Is she sharp mentally? Is it possible she told them NOT to talk to anyone but her??
As you can see from the replies, your question is vague enough that the answers are not consistent. The answer needs to be based on MORE information from you, specifically WHO hired the caregivers and what is the competency of the person being cared for?
IF someone with POA hired the caregivers for a LO who is no longer competent, then certainly the caregiver(s) should be able AND willing to provide important updates. Other family members who are NOT the POA need to get their updates from the POA, if at all, as it's really none of their business. The non-POA family should not be asking the caregivers about the patient.
IF the LO hired the caregivers themselves, then no, the caregivers should be honoring that person's privacy and NOT answering questions from family members or anyone else. The ONLY exception would be if the LO granted information to be provided to a specific person/people, but if the LO is competent, the LO could relate the information themselves, there would be no need for the family to query the caregivers.
This is the same as being at a medical appointment. IF the patient grants transparency for another person, family or not, in writing, then by all means the doctor's office can share the information. If the patient doesn't grant this, then at NO time should anyone in the doctor's office provide any medical information.
Taking this one step further, if I were to hire someone to help me, I would NOT want my kids asking the caregiver questions about me. If they want info, then they should be asking ME - I decide who gets to be nosy. On the other hand, if I were no longer competent and one was assigned as my health proxy, then yes, that child should be able to ask the caregiver(s) any questions about my health and care needs. Since that child would be responsible for overseeing my care, that child would have a need to know AND is legally my representative. The only reason I would consider it okay for one to share this info with the other child is if that second child is the proxy backup - being informed would be important, in the event that the primary was not able to do the job or was away. Anyone else, family or not, NONEYA.
POA is not the reason why care agencies tell family not to speak to the caregiver aide about their family member.
Agencies do this because they want the family and clients to think they're relevant and they can't get by without them.
Homecare agencies are middle-men when it comes to caregiver/aides. All they offer is taking a cut of the money collected. I'm not talking about visiting nurses, or physical/occupational therapists who work in the home. They have different jobs and different bosses they answer to. Homecare aides are the ones who are on the job the most and for the longest times. Since they get paid next to nothing for their service, agencies try to keep a tight grip on them out of fear that a good one will get hired privately by a family. Every caregiver/aide who works a private hour in a home takes money away from a care agency.
The caregiver is the person who is actually caring for and with your loved one. They are the people who can answer your questions because they are the ones who are there every day. Some a$$hole sitting behind a desk at an agency office who's never even met the client, or some nurse who pops in a couple times a week for ten minutes, don't know what's going on with your family member. They can't answer your questions because they aren't there.
Your caregiver aides are with your family member day after day and usually for hours on end. Agency administration makes this rule because they want to make sure they're 'kept in the loop' to stay relevant in the care situation. All the agency is is a middle-man who takes a cut of the worker's pay to do absolutely nothing. Also, because they don't want a family with a good caregiver to cut them out and hire that caregiver privately. You want to know how your loved one is getting on, always ask their aides.
Mind you, we are paying for the PSW, not my MIL. We do not have POA set up yet, but I don’t see what’s the big deal with you asking when was the last time they washed her sheets?
Personally, if you’re paying for it, you’re entitled to it. Otherwise, I’d go shopping for a new service agency.
We don't have trouble with family so much - although there are points to be alert to, see below - as well-meaning neighbours who'll stop us and ask in the cheeriest tones how our client is getting on. Strictly speaking, we can't even admit we know who they're talking about, not even if they've just seen us emerge from the client's house, let alone update them on how the broken hip is mending. But when you try explaining confidentiality people do get very hurt and offended about it, so I've learned to say "can I let her know who was asking?" and that I'll pass on a message if I see her.
Right, then. Issues with communication and families, including but not limited to:
#1 Too many cooks - undated messages from unidentified family members giving different, sometimes mutually exclusive, instructions.
#2 Different interpretations - one family member thinks the nurse meant this, the other thinks the nurse meant that. We get caught in the middle. Not fair.
#3 Insight/understanding of person you're talking to. Take for example the husband of a lady with terminal cancer, heavily involved in her day to day care and apparently in charge. In discussion with him and daughter (staying to help) I explained how we workers were taking extra-extra care with her skin because of the thinning and fragility commonly caused by steroids. Husband horrified: had no idea this could happen, wanted to stop steroids. Fortunately daughter headed him off and explained that the steroids were vital to keeping the tumour under control, I added that the risks and benefits would have been carefully weighed by the wife's oncology team. Then I kicked myself all the way home (twenty miles) for having been so dim as not to check what he understood first before I opened my big mouth.
So, guidelines:
If you have any questions about the company's service, call the company.
If you have any questions about your loved one's condition, ask your loved one. If LO is in no state to answer, ask LO's permission to ask her medical, nursing, and care teams.
If you have positive or negative feedback to pass on - comments, complaints, compliments, concerns - the caregivers should have a procedure for doing this - that is, they can take messages even if they can't answer your questions. But go easy on them. You are not their client.
Summation=Complete a "Release of Information" form. It's for your protection. Stay safe and find peace.
Run away as fast as you can from this Care Company!
You and the Caregiver you hire should answer questions about the person they are taking care of.
But, there really should be one spokes person of the family asking questions and getting a report from Caregiver.
Not every family member bombarding Caregiver with questions.