Tips on telling my mother she will need to move?

"Wednesday my mom has a planned trip to Texas to visit my sister..."

Since I'm a little late getting to this discussion, this trip has already taken place. Why not just delay delay delay her return? If she can't get back to FL without help from sister, she'll be "captive" for a bit... Perhaps sister can "work" on her, show her places in TX she might like... one can hope...

As noted in reply to another comment, FL isn't the only state that doesn't allow anyone to be forced to move. We had the same situation here. Mom refused the aides, hired to try to keep her in her own place longer. Next step was to move (brothers half-hearted offered their places, not likely it would have ever panned out!) So, it would have to be AL/MC, which was, at this point, in her mind, the WORST possible place! AL had been in her own plans BM (before dementia.) Not now. The EC atty told me we couldn't force her to move and said we'd have to apply for guardianship. The big gate to that was the MC chosen wouldn't accept a "committal", but it's also time consuming, expensive and since she wasn't really that far down the dementia path, they might not have granted it!

Too many think POAs give us absolute power, but they don't. They are legal documents that allow us to sign documents, participate in medical care, manage finances, etc. Nothing more. We can't dictate where they will live or how they will live.

Sometimes what we did can work (fibs.) She had injured her leg (cellulitis), so that was used by YB to draft a fake letter from 'Elder Services' at the hospital. In it, she was given the choice to move to a place we chose or they would place her. She was SO mad, but she went with my brothers. There was no time to move her furniture, so I bought new stuff for her room (brought a few items later, like her rocking chair.)

If there's some scenario that would work for you, if "reasoning" with her doesn't work, fibs R us might be useful. You know your mother best, so is there something that might work, esp since she's in TX at the moment? Hurricane damage? Tornado damage? Flooding damage? These happen all the time in FL. Sinkhole? Snake infestation? If you can prevent or delay her return, and maybe get her set up in a nice facility until the "issue" is resolved, then keep delaying her return... maybe???

Happy grandma-ing! There's only one for me, and that will likely be it. I do wish we could get together more often, damn this virus!!!

(I'm sure you will, but just in case - ignore those who are accusing you of "dumping" your mother. We who have been on here long enough know better and you do too. You've done so much for her and put up with her shenanigans (what a crafty old biddy!) for a long time. You can still care about her and oversee her care if no one else does without being the 24/7 whipping post. She had her time, it's YOUR time now, time to be there for your brother, your son, your DIL, and the soon-to-be grandbaby!!

Worst case, get the attorney working on getting her committed. That *could* be how to make it her choice - choose a place, mom, or the STATE will do it for you. That's pretty much what YB's fake letter implied for mom. You did say she wouldn't want the optics of all that laid bare in the courts....

Fingers crossed for you!!!

Well if she has dementia, maybe she won’t totally understand all the detail. Why let HEsr choose where she goes? Find a place and say you’re moving and so is she and tell her where. No choices. If you are her POA you have that right to choose. Good luck and congrats. Being a grandparent is the BEST !💜

Piper, thanks for the update; I will be sending good thoughts this week.

I think the important thing might be to role play this a bit with DH or a friend and practice not reacting to her range, attempts to guilt you or change your mind.

In your shoes, I would rehearse a mantra "we will be moving by Dec 1; you have some options to examine" or just silence in the face of her anger.

Respond, don't react.

Good luck, Piper!

Thank you very much to everyone who offered advice, I appreciate it so much.

I'm planning on having this talk on Tuesday, or sooner if the time feels right. Wednesday my mom has a planned trip to Texas to visit my sister, so if she's feeling angry and enraged at me, then a break from me will be good, and my sister who is not burned out can hopefully also help my mom understand she needs assisted living at this point- and she has choices as to where she wants that to be.

On my end, I'm going to start the conversation with telling her about my desire to be closer to my brother- who is also her dying son. That is a cold, heartbreaking FACT. The baby news is actually secondary to this as much as I am grateful for that piece of joyful news. I will let her know right off that she is welcome to move with us, but that she will need to go to "senior living" (that's what I'm going to call it) and I will not budge on that, period. I'm going to explain that she will still have her "own" apartment, and she can come and go as she pleases, including going on visits with me to see my brother.

That's how I'm starting it, and leaving it. This is what we are doing, here is your option if you decide to move with me. I plan to completely leave out the part that she has made my life a living hell the entire time she's been here.

It's a true wildcard what she will decide.

Barb - if she indicates in any way that her choice is to stay here alone then I will go back to that same elder care attorney I already spoke to and find out what I need to do. One of the reasons I don't think it will come to that is my mother's pride and ego rules the day. The thought of me going to court with her and pulling out her dementia report in open court and outlining the recommendations that she have supervision, cameras, no driving, etc- Along with the revocation of her driver's license, the stunt she pulled in PA to keep driving, the DUI that came after, how she had to sell her cottage because she could no longer be there alone..... Nope- that would be her worst nightmare.

I will post an update when this goes down. Thanks again for all the help and support.

I’d suggest that you ‘unhitch’ the outcome you want from the way you approach it. ‘You have to move’ is not a good way to start. You can’t force her. ‘I'm not leaving her here alone’ is not the way either, for the same reason.

You want to move, so start with that. You are going, no argument. She can’t stop you. If she won’t move herself, she pays you rent while things get sorted out. If necessary, you also rent where you are going until the finances get sorted.

You are in Florida, you say a ‘wait for a crisis’ state. So the crisis is her being left on her own, which is a lot better than the fall and broken bones that many people have to wait for. Sure, there will be a lot of fuss, but the chances are that this will all take a while to arrange. By the time you have actually left, she may be more realistic. If not, when she really is on her own she is likely to change her mind soon. Or (and if the finances work), she may even make different arrangements to stay in Florida. That’s not bad either!

Congratulations on what you've learned about dementia (executive functions, for instance).

* You have a lot on your plate and it sounds like you know what you will do and be able to set clear limits with your mother.

* My suggestions are:
a) be clear (depending on her ability to absorb / understand what you are saying, keep it simple;
b) DO NOT argue which she will want to do.
c) Keep her options between 2 - give her photos or info on specific places and let her decide between two. The point is not to leave the 'choice' open ended.
- Know if there is a waiting list before you give / show her the options.
- If she is concerned about money, have this covered - to be able to discuss w her - if she brings it up.
d) If you start to feel beat up / chewed up and spit out when you tell her your plans, tell her you need to go back to your place for something (give yourself a 'timeout' to regroup) - then go back later or in a few minutes.
e) Agree with her that it is not easy to change, that it will be a change ("for the better" although that might open a can of unwanted worms). Empathize with her - let her know you hear her (if she isn't screaming at you), be emotionally supportive with a 'stern hand' - if she wants to fight and scream, let her and DON'T RESPOND.
- Consider her ranting as an emotional release she needs to get out and she is doing that the only way she knows how.
- Plan ahead for this 'reaction' - it sounds like you already have - and have a good foundation emotionally on what is to come and how you will handle it. You know how she is / has been / and will be-respond.
- You can visualize being in a protective bubble when she starts to scream at you - have a tantrum.
* I suppose if it were me, I would find the positives of her moving and leave her a bullet point list, if she might read it / understand it.
Lastly, I applaud you for doing what you want and need to do. Becoming a grandma must be very exciting. I send you healing thoughts regarding your brother's health. Personally, I feel you are doing exactly what is in your best interest, in your brother's best interest, your son and your mother. It sounds like a win-win-win-win. Even though she was go kicking and screaming. God help me, I might too. Change co-mingled with dementia / fear is certainly not easy on anyone, and someone who is used to being able to manipulate to get their way will be more vocal about it.

* I often suggest that if a person feels overwhelmed or stuck in the moment requiring a response to say:
"That is worth consideration, I'll give it some thought"
"I will get back to you on that"
"I don't have a response right now." And change the subject. (and be ready / prepared to what or how you will redirect her thoughts.
"Yes, it will be hard and (xxx) your family will help you adjust"
"Yes, it will be an adjustment." (Not go on and on. Short sentences than stop.)

Let us know how the conversation goes. Good luck.
Gena / Touch Matters

Play all the cards in your deck. The guilt card, the threaten to sell the condo card and anything else you can find. Old age is scary and strongly independent people are their own worst enemy when it comes to doing what’s best for them.
You still need to live your life, be there for your bro and enjoy your grandchild. Your mother sounds controlling and possibly OCD (Type A Personality) in addition to her dementia. Please know that there is absolutely nothing you can do to please her. When she seems her most lucid tell her your plans and if she balks the explain she will have to live the rest of her life alone and if elder care comes into play there will be nothing you can do for her. Explain you have done all you are will to do and wish her a good rest of her life and do what you need to do. Dire situations call for dire actions. Good luck and God Bless!

ExhaustedPiper: Congratulations on your wonderful news of becoming a first time grandmother in the near future! That's great and I know that you must be so looking forward to it. Also, welcome to becoming a resident in the near future of The Old Line State, aka, Maryland. I reside 20 miles due south of Baltimore, where I have lived since 1972. If I can be of any assistance, please let me know. As far as your mother, YOU will make the decision and not her.
Llamalover47

If I were you, I would look for assisted living in Florida where she has everything set up for her. There are plenty of nice places in Florida that are affordable and where she will be around people her own age.

This is not going to be a one time conversation because she is going to be madder than a poked porcupine. You get your messages clear and be repetitive:
1. "Mom, hubs and I are moving to Maryland."
2. "Mom, you can buy me out of my half of your condo or sell it and move to a senior community."
3. "Mom, look at these senior communities. I'm touring them next week and I want you to come with me because I want you to see what you're missing."

Take it one conversation at a time. Right now, the most important conversation is that you're moving and she needs to decide what she's going to do about your half of her condo.

I see some scenarios here - your mother was never a real, loving kind mother and is completely unwilling to see the "other side". She has physical and mental problems which are getting worse and indicates she refuses to "cooperate". Why on earth are you concerned about her? Why does she deserve you with this treatment - she DOES NOT DESERVE YOUR HELP. Your first priority is to YOU and to your family - and your heart is confirming that. I would immediately seek the help of a social worker or Adult Protective Services and ask them to step in. Tell them you cannot and will not continue to care for her due to her behavior and needs and you need to go where you need to be - and do it. Somehow get her into assisted living by whatever means - or hire someone to be with her 24/7 no matter how she rants and raves. People like this can never be allowed to control those who remain and who have their own lives. My strong advice is that you NEVER allow her to live in YOUR home - you will be destroyed. And I question too getting her to move where you want to move. I think with her background and relationship you are opening a pandora's box. Place her and get help by whatever means.

Be prepared to help your mother decide what to do (if asked) and help her move, and get settled, as needed. Don't let her emotions get into your head. Keep your own boundaries. You also have your own life and responsibilities and need to be there for your son and future grandchild and also for your brother. Your mother has the option of moving near you, if she wants to make it easier for you to look in on her and help her, as needed. Be honest with her about what you'll be capable of doing for you if she is living far away from you. You may not be able to drop everything and come to her at a moment's notice.

I would add that when you talk to your’e mom, if you have to, let her know that a social worker might come in and access her health and independent living situation multiple times. (So she cant manipulate the interview once) make sure to tell her Doctor so she gets the no independent living quote from them! I’d overwhelming invite her, but you have you’re life to live too. I have two I had to deal with so...

Just put it in a way that not only do you need to help her, you now need to help brother and son. Talk it up with her about spending what time remains with your brother/her son...if it's her son. Or that YOU want to spend time with your brother. I HAVE to go help just like I have been helping you. Our plan is to be moved out there by XX date.

If her mental capacity is poor, why not 'take a trip' to the East coast with her in tow. Find a new place for you to live in the area near your son, locate a place for her, then send a moving truck to get everything. If she can comprehend making a permanent move, then just flat out tell her you're moving and ask what her preferences are (and they don't include staying in the condo unless she can afford to hire 24/7 care). Surely a doctor would back you up on the fact she cannot live alone without you next door.

I feel so sad for this poor old woman. She doesn't realize what's going on and is about to receive the shock of her life at that tender old age. It's heartbreaking. I don't know what to say except I am grateful to my mom for being good and not putting me in a position later in life to want to get rid of the baggage. You say your mother was selfish. Fair enough but when family cuts and runs on parents because of dementia is like loving a pet until it isn't cute anymore and dumped. I feel for your situation. It's a rock and a hard place. Brother is terminal and lives far away. I must warn you that the doctors always highball the expected life expectancy for terminal cancer. When my dad had it they gave him 6 months to live but it was aggressive and took him in 2 weeks. They sugarcoat it and I know it for a fact. Sounds like your mother has the higher life expectancy now. What if your brother doesn't last 2 years and has a sudden unexpected downturn? Move your brother up there to live near you and take care of both of them. Consider if your brother may have guilt issues with taking mom's care way for his own care? Very difficult decision and I am praying for your brother and your mom.

Hi mom, I am going where I am loved and appreciated. As you give so too shall you receive. You have given me nothing in my life as you have cared about nobody but yourself. I will leave you with the one you love the most, yourself. Bye.

Then just walk away. Do not stay as it will be fights and threats ( sure no apology for the hell she has put you through.).

I think our mothers may be made from the same mold. She wanted 4 boys and to quote her”ended up with 3 girls!” Was manipulative and if one did not agree with her she just wrote them off as if they were never part of her life- including one of my sisters and me for a while. To make a long story short she was barely able to care for herself , couldn’t remember how to cook, and fell. From the hospital she went to rehab and was placed in memory care with the consent of her doctor. 8 months later she still asks when she’s going home every time we talk to her. She is doing much better physically but gets angry that we won’t take her home. We have always said the doctor is in charge and we have to listen to him. Using the doc as the scapegoat semi- works for us as she has always put them on a pedestal.

she is safe and being cared for and that’s the most important thing for me. I do not let what she says to me about going home affect me as she is in the later stages of dementia. Take a deep breath, say a prayer, be strong, tell her what you are going to do , and do it!!! You will find so much love and joy in that grand baby that it will make things a little easier for you! 🙏🏻🙏🏻💜

Bite the bullet calmly and as definite. If she gets too angry, say you understand but are not changing your mind. Then, excuse yourself and say you will return when she is calm enough to discuss and plan. It will be ugly and difficult, but a decision you are entitled to make. Good luck to everyone. And God’s help to all, especially your brother.

You own both condos? Simple solution: SELL THEM BOTH. Period. And give your mom legal notice of 30 days. (Ask a lawyer for the elderly in your state.) Is she on any government program? Medicare? Medicaid? Low income housing? You need to reach out to people specializing in helping the elderly, as she may need a SOCIAL WORKER to help her move out.

My only tip is to look past the dread - yes, the conversation itself might be horrible.

But.

Then it will be done. And you'll be in a better position in so many ways. Concentrate on that. The horrible will pass.

This website is so great because I feel like I was the one that wrote half of the concerns. This was one of those. My heart feels for you! We moved my mom from CA to TX and she still doesn’t know what hit her. First I found a good Independent Living complex to move her to and really talked it up. She moved there and was pretty miserable and not even a year later she has been moved to Assisted Living - so phew!!!! So glad we moved her when we did., Like the Nike slogan “Just Do It”. It’s really REALLY hard and lots of tears but she’s settled in and likes where she is now. Good Luck to you ❤️

Dear Exhausted,
I am almost in the same boat as you. Without writing 100 pages on how my mom wanted a boy 1st, had one, and proceeded to dote on him and ignore me. Guess who she isn't living with and being cared for by.....yup the son she devoted ALLLL her time to. She literally was shipped down here (NC) by my daughter because "something is wrong with Nana".
Fast forward, I resent the fact that I am burdened with the foolishness and mess and chaos that she always brings AND that it's magnified by her (Feb of this year)dementia/Alzheimer's diagnosis. My mother also puts up this façade that she can take care of herself. I give her the meds/vitamins cause I don't trust her. I prepare her meals cause I don't trust her nor do I want her in my kitchen. We never had the mother daughter bond we should've had and now, well.....I just want this to be settled and done. She's going into an assisted living whether she likes it on not. There is no one else to take her and she can't stay with me.
Now far as my husband and I were concerned, her moving in here was ALWAYS temporary. I laid the ground work and planted ideas as soon as she set foot in the door. Medication has made her a bit more bearable so, I have started giving her items from the list I made.
The list has ALLLL the reasons why she must move. I put every reason I could think of on the list. So far she has agreed to go.
Also, I don't know if your mom would be open to adult daycare but I'm looking into that also. Anything to get her mind focused on what's outside my house for her. I am so sorry you're going through this. When you create a home you expect to be happy in it. Not annoyed and aggravated by what is best described as 'outsiders'.

I love your determination. Most people don't embrace change - especially the elderly - so be prepared to rip off the bandaid. Emphasize that you will ALL be closer to the rest of the family, your son (and grandchild) and her son, who needs support. Giving her a choice on who she prefers to live near is a good idea, so she feels like she has some "power" in the decision process . Make it clear that she will still be living in her "own" space, with support and family nearby. I think you really have it worked out in your mind, so the fallout won't be as bad as you anticipate. This is merely a test of wills - and you sound like you're prepared for battle lol Please keep us posted on how this all unfolds - we are here for you!

This is my suggestion. After you tell her that you are going to sell the condo and move to X, refuse to argue with her. Just calmly keep repeating some phrase like, "We've decided this is what we are going to do". Say it over and over while she argues with you.

If she doesn't have the money to buy you out and it was in the purchase agreement that either one of you as Co Owners could sell any time you wanted, then she has to sell.

Is it an option for her to move to Maryland?

The sooner you tell her the better so she can have plenty of time to think and decide.

Prayers

Seems you walked out the reasons why you want to move and that you also want to sell your portions of property in Florida.

I suggest you just tell her that you are selling your condo and your portion of her condo in order to buy property near your son. Tell her that she will need to move or buy your portion of the condo she lives in by a specific date. Explain that if she can not or will not buy your share, then it means she will sell the entire condo after that date. Have her sign an agreement to that effect.

Tell her that moving into senior housing whichever state she decides to live in may be a wiser choice for her future. Explain that if she stays in Florida, you will visit only ____ times per year and will not be able to do the things you currently do. Explain that if she lives in your new state, she may not live with you and your husband. Tell her you are willing to help her find senior housing in the new state. If she wants her own house, she will need to work with a realtor on her own.

The reality is that you can't "make her do" anything unless the authorities step in. You can suggest options for her but you can't make her take them. It is always wiser to just explain what you will do and give her options. Even with poor decision-making, nobody likes to be forced into a corner. If a crisis emerges, then you may be in a place -legally - to "make" the decisions for her.

Wishing you the best !

EP, my point is that you need to have

1. Someone on your side in the room.

2. Someone with some "authoritative" stance who can stand up to your mom and tell her "no".

3. Someone who can advise you on what to do if mom goes ballistic and DOES take this to court.

I would be in favor of going back to the eldercare attorney you saw who said you can't force her into care, even with your POA.

I would want to explore the ramifications of resigning your POA. And how to prevent your mom from moving next door to your new home.

Barb, my mom doesn't really have her own personal lawyer. She used a lawyer in 2014 for POA paperwork, and had a dui lawyer in PA but that's over now too so she doesn't have one currently. And I don't understand why she would need one? I already co-own the property where she lives so it doesn't have to be transferred to me, just sold the regular way and funds dispersed to us both.

If she tells me that she will not agree to sell, then I will be the one who has to get a lawyer and I will. I'm not leaving her here alone. Thankfully I can force a sale in FL as a co-owner a judge just has to agree. I doubt my mom would take it that far.

I just need the courage to have the conversation and hope my sister will help in getting my mom moved to assisted living no matter which state she choses to live.

I appreciate the tips given!

I would get her evaluated. Call your County Office of Aging or Adult protection services. Approach it as you are moving to be near family and you know Mom will put up a fight not to go. Is it possible to get an evaluation to see if Mom is capable to be on her own or what resources are needed to help her stay independent. If they say she can live alone, then that is your out. If they say not, then ask how can you enforce her POA so she can be placed in an AL?

You tell Mom "DH and I are moving to MD. You can go with us or stay here. If you stay here u will need to go to an AL because I won't be here to do for you. If u go with us to MD, I can no longer cater to you. I AM going to enjoy my grandchild. So u need to go to an AL there."

If she says she can be alone, list all the things you do for her. I hope she is still capable of understanding what your move means.

I think I would take her to HER lawyers office to have this conversation.

Let him/her handle the logistics of where your mother is going to live--on her dime of course. The lawyer is going to have to be involved in the property transfer, yes? Just get him/her involved from the get go.