Each time I think everything is going to be ok, dad does something else. Long story short, he is doing so well in his new facility. He now wants to sell his house ( he is currently renting it out). I would support this idea but I know him and he has a plan. I told him he needed to keep his home because he keeps talking about wanting come home for a visit. Well he then says he can stay with me. I told him that would not work because his home has been fixed for him ( pull bars in the bathroom and etc.) So he became angry with me and said that it is bad that I do not want him in my home. But I know him and I think he is trying to leave the facility. He keeps saying he is in his right mind and can do what he wants.
You don’t have to do one thing about his thoughts.
* Learning to set boundaries - be aware of needing to set boundaries and then be willing to do that (it could be hard, elicit 'guilt' feelings ... )
* New behavior is hard and it starts with how you think about - his behavior - and what you want to do / figure out what is the 'right' way to proceed.
* Understand dementia - it likely is 'more than dealing with a difficult parent.' His brain is / has changed and will continue to change.
- The more you understand what dementia is and how to mange / communicate with a person inflicted, the more you'll be able to make appropriate decisions on how to proceed). For instance,
- You do not argue.
- You expect him to be / get angry
- You undertand that he is scared, confused, fearing losing independence.
--- then you learn how to communicate based on how he 'may' process feelings / new information.
Once you are more educated / aware of what dementia is - how the brain changes which continue to change how he communicates, you will be in a better position to make decisions in his - and your - best interests.
Google TEEPA SNOW. Watch her webinars, read her You Tubes, books, etc.
Learn that you can be both compassionate and practical / set boundaries at the same time. First, you need to know you can set boundaries, not take his behavior and words personally (not so easy to do, easy to say), and learn to put yourself first ... in order to be there for him. If you continue to let him ... determine your thoughts and behavior, you will burn out and it will not serve either of you.
Gena / Touch Matters
New behavior is definitely hard to start when you are not use to not putting yourself first. What is also hard is that fact that my dad has always been this way. I could accept it better if it was only Dementia. His ill treatment of me, my mom ( when she was living) and others is not new. I am noticing him being more forgetful now and a little confused like when it comes to what day it is but he still wants to control and speak harshly/ugly . His side of the family know how he is and is just now admitting it. Lord forgive me if I'm wrong but I think he has lied all these years and made them think my daughter and I did nothing to help him but now they have seen the light.
That person that said they were taking him home for an overnight and was going to stay with him??? What a first class JERK! She "had to work"?? I would tell the staff where he lives that this person is NOT allowed to take him out of the facility ever again.
He needs to just stay put, for goodness sakes!
While the rental may be going fine at this time, renting can be a pain in the neck and as your dad is declining, it will become YOUR pain in the neck. I would support him selling it and do it ASAP. Will he make more than $250k in gains (someone else mentioned that number)? If not just get it done so he can not go back there. Yikes.
And yes, your house is 110% off limits. With all that's going on, don't even let him come for a visit. Nope.
Good luck. Stay strong.
His house is rented. The person who rents it is not there all the time due to work so he was not there last weekend when dad came home. The person who helped did help get him home but not stay the night because they were called in to work. They originally had gotten someone to cover their shift but then that person had an emergency. I know the house is not worth 250,000. No where near that amount. I have told him that it is not possible for him to stay with me.
If you think your father has a plan to get out of the AL and into your house or go back to his, you should trust what your gut tells you.
You're not wrong. You would know best because it's your father and you know him. So if you think he will try to pull something if you let him come for a visit to your house, chances are he will.
Remind yourself of the reasons why your father was put into a care facility. Those reasons have not changed and are not going to. None of that has anything to do with you. So often our parents who were selfish, emotionally abusive narcissists in their youth get a hundred times worse as time goes by. They blame their adult children as the reason why they're old and have miserable lives.
Then comes the entitled attitude that their family is supposed to give up their lives and livelihoods to basically become care slaves that will prop up their false sense of independence by obeying their every command while at the same time discreetly running every aspect of their lives on the down-low.
Sound familiar?
I bet it does.
You just trust your gut tells you and that you're father is trying to hatch some half-baked plan to move into your house or back into his own.
It would probably be a good idea to talk to a lawyer about if keeping the property as a rental is the best idea.
I don't think you are broken.
I think you are breaking out. Like a butterfly from the crysallis.
You are someone who came to the Forum and honestly listened to us even when the "tough love" mits were on and we were punching away. You took so much we had to say about setting boundaries and limits to heart, you learned new ways of handling situations and dilemmas. You told us when stuff worked. You told us when you were disappointed it STILL wasn't easy.
Interestingly, WHO WE ARE at heart doesn't often go away. And if we are empaths and if we are caregivers and if we are fix it types--that stuff stays. I am as blinking OCD as ever I was. If anything aging makes it WORSE. Much I know it doesn't work to try to control the world in general or my own in particular I will be dead six months before I stop trying!
You have made great strides. You know yourself so much better. I would venture to say you know your DAD better. And if the day comes when you can actually SMILE about something that once scared or annoyed you? Well, that's a complete cure.
Complete cures don't change anything, EITHER! Ha ha. Don't get your hopes up. But you will know that all in all you are pretty normal. Like all the rest of us trying to think your way through the maze.
Good hearing from you.
I thought about you a couple of days ago because I remember you telling me months ago that one day I would smile and laugh at something he did or said. It has definitely been happening lately. I thought I would not get to this point but with the your help and everyone else here, I’ve come a long way. I still have a long way to go. I agree with you… I am breaking out. It feels good to set boundaries. I was literally and still am, exhausted at trying to please him and gain approval. I’ve just about come to accept the fact that I will never be good enough in his eyes but that’s ok because I know what I have done for him.
I remember the ease of how a cousin would brush off requests from her Father, like mere fruit flies. Tiny & harmless.
It made me question: Why couldn't I do that? Did I feel confident to do that? SAFE to say no?
Yes I could say no to many people, but not really to others. Why was this? Some people went to war on my no. By nitpicking, bullying, repetition, guilting. Wow did I hate that!
I read on this forum : It is not our problem how someone reacts to our No.
Yet we can feel so uncomfortable, so UNsafe, we avoid it.
FB, keep remonding yourself YOU ARE OK. That if you say No to Dad you will STILL BE OK.
(((Hugs)))
"I was trying to do the right thing. My heart could not tell him, "I won't help you".
1. "The right thing"
What IS that? Do you mean follow his commands? OBEY your Father?
What does 'the right thing' mean to you?
2. "My heart could not tell him"
Why not? Practically speaking, because a heart beats & pumps our blood. It is our mouth & throat that contains the speaking parts. We speak our thoughts as directed by our brain.
Yes we all know this biology.. so what does this really mean?
I feel controlled to say yes?
I do not feel safe to say no?
3. "I won't help you"
There must a giant list of ways to say no in a less emotive way.
Examples to back out;
* That is your business, not mine.
* You can choose for yourself.
Examples to state your view;
* I see it differently to you.
* I don't agree.
Example to be direct & clear;
* No.
* I won't do that.
Example to do all: back out, state your view & be direct & clear;
* I heard you. But I don't agree, therefore I will not help with that.
(A zillion thanks to Barb Brooklyn)
I have used this WITH SUCCESS many times now.
Or, you don't have to say "I won't help you" at all! SAY NOTHING.
Smile blandly & silently 🙂
Stare blankly & silently
Be still & silent as a grey rock 🪨
Think about what needs to happen before it’s safe for you to come back to being involved with this man. Write yourself a list, and then STICK TO IT.
Better not to give in .
Learn this phrase .
“ I’m not supporting that “.
or
” That’s not possible “.
Then it’s up to him to figure it out . Stop helping him find ways to wiggle out of AL to go back home .
Dad did come home and he is back at the facility. No help from those who meddle. The lady who was helping when he was at home, helped out. I tried to do the right thing. I went with her to pick him up. He got home and she stayed the rest of the evening but had to go to her job so I spent the night and she came back the next morning. Long story short, I'm still exhausted from that because I stayed up all night. Could not sleep. Things were going good until he started calling people on his phone after he got in bed. He told one of the meddling friends that I had left him alone! And he is telling people he is coming home once per month. NOT TRUE.
I would not have helped one bit.
Whyyyyyyyy would you do this ?? You just showed him a crack in your boundaries . He will continue to try to pry it open and drive you crazy in the process .
You were not obligated to make this trip happen . IMO , you should have said you were not helping . You have now invited more misery . You showed Dad the WAY TO MISERY for you.
He lied and said you left him alone . Guess what ?? He can not be trusted . Who knows what other lies he will tell about you . My mother called the cops and lied about me to try to move back to her house and leave AL .
Don’t ever take your father out again . Only visit him in the facility in a common area or at a minimum leave the door to his room open when you visit . You need to protect yourself from his lies .
I'm dealing with a difficult mother who gets mad at me when I don't do what she wants or things don't go her way but I continue to do right by her because it's the right thing to do. What I won't do is have her move in with me. Like you, I know her and I have to put my wellbeing (and that of my family) first or I am of no help to her.
I'm the same way. I try to do what is right because it is the right thing to do, but he can not live with me nor me with him.
When this subject comes up, excuse yourself.
Make it clear that you are not an option for helping and will not enable poor decision making nor participate in care or visits if he "does as he wants".
Yes, it sounds humorous although may be very helpful to process these unchartered areas.
You do not say which area in a facility he is in ... AI ? memory care? Ind Living?
This matters as it indicates how his brain is functioning.
It sounds to me like you need to have legal documents in place to make decisions that he cannot make. He likely is not in a mental state (brain chemistry / brain cells dying) to make these majorly important decisions.
He likely will tell you at some point "I want to come home - leave here."
(As I see you mentioned.)
Expect this change of mind --- perhaps daily - or several times a day --- as he will not be able to 'think' differently due to his brain changing.
Always focus on:
* Keeping him calm.
* Do not argue with him - listen (it shows he matters and has some independence) ... then always do what is in his best interest / need for his welfare.
* Get legal documents in order
* Read / study dementia so you know what you are dealing with - and won't be surprised / caught off guard / unable to know how to respond (which can happen anyway --- the best of us trained in the areas of dementia are triggered ... and have to figure out in 'real time' how to handle whatever comes up - it is an art form of sorts).
* You do not mention that selling his home may be needed financially to support his facility living arrangements now. It that isn't a need, you / he is very fortunate.
* I believe that giving him 'reasons' why not to sell won't make any difference to him. He will be on a mental mission to do what his brain is telling him 'he needs' to do. You have to decide, stop arguing/fighting with him and change the subject.
Show compassion AS you need to take control. He will be bouncing all over the place. If you allow his 'decisions' to dictate how you feel / what you need to do, you will be very depleted emotionally, mentally, psychologically - in all ways. Listen, agree, then do what you need to do.
Gena / Touch Matters
So now he does not want to sell the house. He did not tell me this. He told one of friends and she told me. She said he told her that he did not want to pay taxes and etc on the money he would make for selling. I tried to tell him that. He often tells her more than he tells me. He is also going to come home Saturday to spend the night. She has agreed to pick him up and spend the night to help him. She has experience with the elderly and is very good. She is also very firm and straight to the point. She said she told him that this is the only time she will do this.
One of my family has lost a lot of independance & has high anxiety.
Being in their orbit can be a case of being 'instructed' from one task to another.
Appears they wish to keep instructing as their go-to anxiety management strategy? Or, I wonder, to hold power. Keep others busy wirh endless busy-work, to keep them orbiting.
*Attention seeking behaviour*.
Sell my house.
Now bring me the documents.
Bring be A B C D E etc from my house to see & sort. Now take F G H to your house. Sell I J K. Make sure you give me all the reciepts. Now L M N can stay here in my room. I will need to move to a bigger room...
What do you think?
Endless busy-work as a ways to keep you in 'employment'?
Getting OP to jump .
OP should keep her feet firmly on the ground .
I try being kind and will continue but he gets upset anyway.
He probably won't even notice that you changed the subject.
Safe: Meals, the weather, possibly past (happier) memories. Even wishful never-going-to-happen-nonsense can be a safe topic (eg I'm planning a trip next year to Iceland...)
Unsafe: His house. Renting his house. Selling his house. Visiting his house. Visiting YOUR house.
Shut these topics down.
Distract. Or leave.
With your practical hat on, selling his house may make sense. He doesn't need it now. But.. the stress & fallout need to be worth it.
An Agency can be hired to sort, donate, sell & dispose of personal belongings. But.. ususally a family member has to sort out all the really personal items first - the old photos & trinkets etc. This needs much emotional mind space & energy. Especially if doing alone.
I would consider these issues;
House.
1. You will need to sell the house ONE DAY but does it need to be NOW? Is there any urgency?
2. Is the rental situation working? Good paying tennants?
Dad.
1. Is this Dad's latest obsession?
2. Is he competent to make this decision at this time?
3. Is there risk you will get the BLAME later for selling his house from under him?
Remember the emergency respond acronym: DRSABCD.
D for Danger.
Do not put yourself in danger.
Being blamed for ever after for selling his house... 👎 Dangerous.
I agree on filtering conversations. I have been trying to do that and also redirecting. I would say selling the house would make sense but I think his plan is to leave the facility and expect to live with me which would not be a good situation for me or him. I do not know why he is in a rush to sell. The renters are working out well.
I also thought about it being his latest obsession just like wanting to visit home is an obsession. But, sometimes I think certain friends of his put ideas in his head. I do not think he is thinking clearly because he always said he wanted to keep his house and now suddenly he does not. He could possibly because of his developing dementia, say later on that I convinced him to sell it. But sometimes even before the signs of dementia, he would put blame on me for things he started. Also, you are correct when saying preparing the house for sale would be emotional for me and I would be doing it alone. He has also stated that he would want certain things brought to my house. I told him no. I do not have room for extra items. He just does not think about the stress that certain things put on me.
I told my dad that he could do whatever he could do. That meant him figuring it all out, implementing the changes and dealing with everything. Took him a while but, he did. He bought a truck and drove himself right outta my city. Was he better off? Safer? Taking care of things? Nope! Not my problem anymore. I watched him crash and burn and I do not regret letting him fail on his own terms. It was gut wrenching and so very sad but, I understood that he would be happier dead then in a facility.
If your dad can pull off whatever he is up to, without you stepping in, then the only thing you can do, is not let him in your house. It is sad and it shouldn't be that way but, it is and by his doing. It is OK to tell him no and close the door. You have to protect yourself from him and his choices, you are not responsible for the consequences if he does something really stupid, remember that and don't buy into the lie that you are his daughter and that means you have to forsake your own well-being to prop him up.
I have to say that my dad did better after the facility then before, at least after the facility he was better at keeping food in the house and getting out and about frequently. He got to spend time taking care of 2 grandchildren and loved every minute of it. Yes, I know how horrifying that sounds, I agree, not my kids so no way to intervene, just lots of prayers for safety, that were answered. My point being that he actually found the internal fortitude to actually take control and live his life with his limitations and found happiness for himself. His grandchildren loved their time with him and no doubt his passing left their lives a little less secure.
I tell you all this because your dad sounds a lot like mine, missing so much brain function, yet so incredibly smart that he could still be crafty and clever and make others question themselves.
Stay strong, stay determined and love yourself at least as much as you love him. You got this!! Oh and he is right, it is sad that he can not come to your house but, not for the reasons he would have you believe.
This is all so difficult. I would never do this to my daughter. I'm so tired. My dad knows he can not care for himself. He is unable to walk, get in and out of bed, dress, shower and attend to bathroom needs. It makes me sad for him but it also upsets me that he still expects me to be able to take care of him. He is doing so well in the facility and that is where he needs to stay and I'm prepared to tell him that. I put aside my own wants and needs for many years to help him after my mom died but now he needs a level of care that only a facility can provide. I'm trying so hard to be strong. Thank you
This is a quote from the book:
"The worm that destroys you is the temptation to agree with your critics, to get their approval."
I think that is appropriate for many caregivers here, including you, FB.
Don't let this worm destroy you. You no longer need your dad's approval. You are an adult, a fully functioning adult who is worth something.
Don't let dad's guilt-tripping and anger drive your decisions anymore.
Its still unclear from your description how much dementia he has and how much is his reasoning sound.
Regardless, it sounds like he wants to move in with you, and with or without dementia that's often what a parent is wanting to do.
I suggest to make it easier to set boundaries, to not only firmly say that "no its not possible to come live with me", but if it will help , come up with a couple of simple reasons. "Dad you need a lot of help and as you age further you will only be needing more and more help. So you need to stay in the assisted living". Go ahead and start back at work , full time, as soon as you can! Then you have even more reason why 1) he cant live at your house as no one is there to help him all day and 2) even in the AL, you dont have time to drive him all over the place, you are working.
As far as going to doctors' appointments, there can be other ways. Some assisted living have a driver/van and will take residents to the doctors' appointments - does his? Or some cities/ towns have senior ride services that can do that. Or, agency caregivers can do this driving around, which will cost money (more on that in the last paragraph)
Is there anything he doesnt like about the facility? Or, is there anything about it that you see as a negative? IF so, see what you can do to improve life in the facility and that will help and might reduce the itch to leave.
As far as the fear that a friend or relative might pick him up from the facility and bring to your house - you can pre-empt against that happeneing. Probably you know of family or friends who might be the ones to consider doing this. Have a talk with each of them, explain things out, and why he is best off staying in the facility and why moving in with you is a very bad idea (quote going back to work full time as one reason). That way, if they know that you firmly will NOT allow him to move in with you, they wont support him in such a stunt . If they are trying to push you, ask them "why dont you have him come live with YOU then if you think it so bad to live in a facility". I would think you can get family /friends to see your side of it, not his.
As for selling the house, thats great that he mentioned it! I dont see a good reason to keep it if you think its unsafe and a bad idea for him to move back in to it. Tell him he needs more help and care, he needs people to drive him to appointments since you will be working full time, so he needs more money for all of this. THen do it. Sell the house, put the money in savings type accounts/ money market. THen use it to supplement his care and take care of any negatives. If needed, get agency caregivers to take him back and forth to the doctors, etc. Use the money to do more things for him, and then you wont feel guilty that he is not getting taken care of etc. Most things that he is wanting you to do, are things that you can pay caregivers to do for him in some way, if the assisted living is not covering that already.
One of the doctors said he has mild dementia. His memory is still ok but I can see changes in him sometimes. His mind is pretty sharp but then again, he is different sometimes.
I agree. He wants to move in with me and he knows that is not possible. I have just started back to work full time so I'm gone a lot but his answer to that would be to have someone coming to my house while I'm at work to care for him. He has a great situation at his facility and I think he knows that, he just thinks I'm suppose to take care of him. They take him to all doctors appointments, he gets three meals per day plus snacks, physical therapy, activities and he can attend church in the chapel on Sundays. I have not seen anything negative and I usually go unannounced so that I can get a true picture. He complains about things because he always has complained.
I'm going to make sure his friends know about not picking him up because nothing surprises me anymore. Another thing about selling the house is that I would be the one having to clean it out and etc. I could do it but it would take me awhile and if someone buys it, he will tell them they can move in right away. There is years worth of stuff in the house. I do not have siblings or anyone who would want to sincerely help.
Do whatever YOU have to do to release YOURSELF from the chaos your father has imposed upon you. Ask yourself what it would take for you to find inner peace, after all this nonsense HE wants? A demented elder with anosognosia is constantly plotting schemes to override what "was done to him undeservedly". In his mind, hes fine, like my mother was. She was constantly reminding me she had NO BUSINESS being in a Memory Care Assisted Living facility, and all the staff told her so! Her doctor was a dirty liar too. 🙄 But in truth, she had nowhere to go and no way to get out of the building. If she showed up at my house somehow, some way, I'd have driven her right back to the MC. She irritated me more so than she cowed me, after 65 yrs of manipulative shenanigans.
If you want peace, sell dad's house and move away leaving no forwarding address with HIM. Then you will be free. That may seem extreme to some, but when you've been controlled your whole life by an overbearing person, it can be a heavenly decision and the true definition of FREEDOM.
To find inner peace, it would definitely take me moving away. I have often thought about it and I'm trying to get to a point financially so that I can. I just want to be happy and I will never understand why a parent would put stress on a child, young or old.
You don't take a person with Dementia back to their home. Its no longer what Dad wants, its what he needs. And since its being rented you can't do that. The renters have to be notified 24 hrs in advance when a landlord will be coming and there must be a good reason. Coming to visit is not a good reason. Dads home is now the renters. Its their home and he can't come and go as he wishes.
Dad has been told he cannot go home. He needs to stay where he is so sell the house. One less thing you have to worry about. Sell it for Market Value. Maybe the renters would like it. Dad then has no option. You stick by your guns, you will not let him move in with you and you will not care for him. He can plan all he wants, you just keep saying NO. You need to look at this man not as a poor old man but as the man who abused you and your mother. You owe him nothing. You do what is good for you. You really hold the power here. If he is able (which I doubt) to get out of the facility, then he is on his own. You have done enough. You call APS and tell them he is a vulnerable adult and you have done what you can.
You need to realize that you hold the keys not Dad. He can think whatever he wants but he is an old man. No longer capable of doing things for himself. He needs you and you give him only what you want. If you owe this man anything, its a safe place to live, and he is in a safe place. I am a firm believer in what goes around comes around. This is your Dads come around. He has to pay for what he did to others.
You have gotten lots of support here and suggestions. Why do you worry so much about a man who made your life miserable. Me, I would sell his house. I would be his POA only to be able to pay the facility. When he needs Medicaid, I would see to that. When he gets that, I would revoke the POA and let the State take over. POA does not mean you care for him or need to be in contact with him. Everything is done between u and the staff.
I'm thankful for the support I have received from this group and I apologize if it seems as if I'm being repetitive. The last year has been extremely tough for me trying to deal with all of this alone. I'm going to stand my ground with him. As I stated earlier, he says he is mentally competent and can make his own decisions. So I'm going to step back and let him make them.
If he sells it he has no home to return to and the money can be used to keep him in AL or wherever he ends up.
You have made it clear that he is not moving in with you, so that is that.
They all want to go home.
Back off, let him figure it out.
If he remains competent he can sell his home. Be certain to in NO WAY assist him or enable him in this. In fact, tell him you don't wish to discuss such a thing. It IS his right to do as he wishes if he is competent. So let him. He can rent something with the proceeds until he crumps and returns to care.
I know you can stand up for yourself now. If you crumble it will be your choice, which you'll have to take responsibility for. Meanwhile don't let him scare you. Just be certain in your own mind what you will do to PROTECT YOURSELF. Good luck. Keep us updated; I know you will. And take care of yourself.
I'm not going to assist him in this process of selling. According to a family friend, I have just learned that he has already started the process of having it appraised. He has not mentioned any of this to me. He has only told me he wants to sell. I do intend to take care of myself and my mind. He is well aware that I can not care for him and he is well aware that he needs 24 hour care.