What power does a caregiver (no guardian) have over the rights of the elder person they care for, to communicate/socialize with others?

GEO you say, "I'd be so emotional I'd do and say a lot of really stupid things that wouldn't help the situation. That's pretty much what most people do when they deal with their siblings."

I'm glad to report that no, no it isn't what most people do. It is certainly not what happens in my family.

Your family is dysfunctional. That's how you roll. If you want to break out of that mode I think that would take some counselling. It is tough, but it could be done -- at least I see a lot of people on this forum who have healed or at least improved a lot after being raised in a toxic environment.

You didn't mention how petty the squabbling is, or if there are serious implications impacting health/safety/welfare/relationship of/with your mother or other family members, but I again ask a question that deviates from the original question posted:
Why GEO, is your MOM having to spend HER money on lawyers because YOU and other FAMILY members are dysfunctional as a family?

It doesn't help me, nor answer my original question, but my answer to YOU is: You and the rest of your dysfunctional family all pay for your own (insert you're own colorful additive here) lawyer fees. This should reduce but not likely eliminate the family bickering, and give your mother some solace with the fact that, she is not (financially) paying for it.

That's a hard thing to do because, if it were me, I'd be so emotional I'd do and say a lot of really stupid things that wouldn't help the situation. That's pretty much what most people do when they deal with their siblings. My siblings and I are no different. We all totally overreact and I include myself in that. We take something small and turn it into a disaster. That's what I would do.

Now, if you're going to ask what I SHOULD do (if I and my family were reasonable and level-headed) would be to step back and calm down. Next, probably stop to think that the person on the other side is as upset as I am and that accusing them of anything isn't making the situation better.

But, as I said, in my family, we usually drive the other person right over the edge. That's just how we roll. That's why we can't get anything done without a lawyer. And, once again, my mother has a pitiful amount of money that she hates spending on the lawyer, but that's where we're at with things.

Let's try this Geo. Let's say your mother lives with that family member that you seem to be constantly butting heads with, and, in your mother's mind, be it true or not, there is no place else for her to live that doesn't include cardboard boxes and bridge overpasses. Much the same as oh.... a battered wife. You had talked to your mom and said/asked something that "upset" your mom. Something like "I don't hurt your feelings, do I? I'm not mean to you, am I? You're not afraid of me, am I?" The person your mom is living with, feeling that her position within the family, or that the influence she has over your mother is being threatened, or for whatever the insane reason it may be, this person starts telling your mother that "Geo is a bad person for upsetting you." "Geo makes you feel bad." "You can not talk to Geo any more." "You can not see Geo any more". You mother now, even though she doesn't YET believe all the awful things that are being said about you, feels that if she doesn't comply anyway, things will get bad around there and/or she may wind up under a bridge somewhere. Much like a battered wife. This other person takes steps to insure compliance buy doing things like blocking your phone number, turning you, or anyone else known to be sympathetic to you, away at the door. She is preventing you by every means possible, from getting your mother to this good lawyer that may be able to errr.... Fix Things. Friends and family are grumbling about your mother not answering the phone, but have found if they keep their mouths shut and "not get involved" they can call this other persons phone, and upon approval of this other person, talk to your mom. Mom is not going to say anything to any of these people about the abuse because, much the same as a battered wife things could get worse, and/or if she just keeps her mouth shut things might get better.

What are you, GEO123 going to do? Even if you forget you even have a mom because it is not worth the trouble, your mother is still going to be under thumb of this person. Will still be influenced, controlled, manipulated buy this person because this person has the power, and she LIKES it... much the same situation as in a battered wife household.

What do you do geo123? What do you do....

Along with specializing in elder law he also specializes in mediation. He makes it clear to new clients that he feels that families should do anything they can to avoid ending up in court. I've ended up recommending him to all my caregiver groups when people ask about him. But lawyers are a local thing and everyone needs to check their local area for someone that can help them out.

Although, I should add that most of the laws that will apply in these situations will be in the state of the person being taken care of.

Wow, that lawyer really goes above and beyond to mediate family conflicts! If mom ever needs a Guardian, nominate him for the job! He sounds like a real peacemaker, an exceptional professional.

I should also have mentioned that the lawyer sometimes just stops us and reminds us that the point of it all isn't necessarily to pick on what the law does or doesn't say but to give her the best care and life possible.

I should also add that she is more honest with the lawyer than she is with us. She doesn't like to hurt our feelings. So, if we call her up and say something like, "I don't hurt your feelings, do I? I'm not mean to you, am I? You're not afraid of me, am I?" she will insist that that's not true and hang on the conversation. He's better at asking her questions in a neutral way than we are. We get a better picture of her opinion on tough questions when we have him talk to her and he's a friendly and neutral figure to her.

I think I should be careful with the term "straightened out" as it's subjective. However, the bottom line of it is that we all took all our issues to the lawyer. The lawyer told us what the law was, what actions we could or couldn't take, should or shouldn't take, that sort of thing. He sometimes just comes out and says the issue is that we all have a different opinion on things and that that's not against the law. Or, if someone feels litigious, the lawyer might respond that that is the person's option but that it probably wouldn't go anywhere in court.

He does a lot of elder law and says these types of issues are common in the families that come to him.

One thing he does is that he will meet separately with my mother. When one person has some serious-sounding accusation to make, he will meet individually with her. He says he does deal with people with dementia enough to know that they have good and bad days and say different things at different times and he does try to keep that in-mind when he talks to her.

Because this thread is getting so long that many people such as yourself don't have time to read it in entirety, I started a new thread that is an update to what is going in here. "What can be done to stop this sorry excuse for a human being?"
Fast rundown: Mother 85 not 65. Up until the recent events I have been on the phone with my mom EVERY DAY for the past 2-1/2 years with conversations lasting I'd guess an average of 1 hour long. I have visited my mom to take care of personal business and to take her shopping at LEAST twice a week for the past 1-1/2 years. These visits were often in excess or 10 hours long. This sibling rivalry is nothing new and had, up until recently, no impact in my visits/phone calls or the way daughter treated my mother.... or so I thought anyway. I now realize there was some stuff for a few months leading up to this that I ignored. I had for the last 2 years assisted my mother with her finances, and it was when, at my mothers request, I attempted to again gain control of my mothers finances that the daughter took the rivalry to new heights and crossed the sacred boundary of mother/offspring relationships. You Don't Mess With The Relationship Between Parent And Child!

A little reading on abuse may be beneficial to you geo123. If the daughter is doing something to cause a elder/vulnerable adult view normal living as they have known it, as something that is now "not worth the hassle" fits the definition of a person that is being abused, and when this something is causing the VP (vulnerable person) to become isolated and alienated from friends and family, be it incidental or by design, and even of the VP due to medical/mental conditions does not even realize they are being abuse, this is a CRIME in the eyes of the law. Proving it is difficult when, as in the case of most all abuse, the VP will not admit to any abuse and will reject the persons trying to help them.
I don't have the time or the space here to outline all the subtle signs an investigator must detect during interviews.

I was looking for maybe an end run to resolve the issue rather than hiring a lawyer. It would be MY money spent, not my moms, and I am a poor person that can't afford this crap and the daughter knows it. That is why the daughter she is using my mother, nay abusing my mother to... get back at me? punish me? feed her narcissistic ego?

BTW... having a conversation lasting just short of an hour and a half with a person that "does not want to talk to you" that "upsets you" that has you so "scared" that you "don't even know how to do anything" would seem rather odd or a bit strange to any normal person. Yah... I got lucky one day and my mom happened to be near her phone when it rang, and the daughter was not in my mother's room.

What did you do to unsuccessfully "get it straightened-out"?

I'm part of several caregiver groups and I hear quite a lot of stories like this. It makes me ask this question: is this really a situation of abuse or of siblings that really just don't get along and can't work something out? In addition, is the sister really interfering with the phone or does mom just not want to get involved and possibly it's not worth the hassle for her to answer the phone and have to be in the middle of everything?

I'm not saying there's not some other problem, here, but just reading all this, I'm not sure I've read anything that makes it sound like something else.

With that in-mind, you can do what my family did which was to get a lawyer to get it straightened-out. Unfortunately, my mother doesn't have much money and it does eat into what little they have left, but it did make the legal issues more clear. On the other hand, it didn't make anyone happy. The sibling issues remain, no-one is happy, and the misery continues. The only good part is that when one person claims abuse or wants to sue or whatever, everyone else knows what the real situation is and either pays attention or doesn't, depending whether it's a real issue or not. When there's any doubt, we throw it back onto the lawyer for my poor mother to spend more money on.

By the way, my mother has a simple estate that she could easily have done on her own in a will but paid the lawyer to handle it so that no-one could claim there was any influence by one party or another once she passes away. Well, as the lawyer points-out, anyone can take the will to court if they want to, but it's unlikely they'd get any traction on that.

Motivation I could never find enough adjectives for to make an accurate description, but a new phrase I ran across pretty much describes her in a nut shell. Narcissistic Personality Disorder. I’m not making a diagnosis, just an observation and you seem to be well attuned to that type of personality.

My mom doesn’t have enough years left for me to just back off. I don’t have enough years left for me to just back off. Little changes for the good when people just back off. Yes I have been forced into self preservation mode decades ago. I am broken never to be the same. Then it was about my children. Now it is about my mother. I will not let my pain overwhelm me during this ordeal.

If your situation has been going on for so long that it seems almost normal, then you have become acclimated. Just another part of life that goes by, mostly unnoticed and with little or no concern on your part.

Oh... I would ever pray for anything bad to happen to anyone, but if the daughter were to NOT (literally) wake up tomorrow, I would not be too terribly sad.

Thanks for the additional information, it helps. I *always* try to give people the benefit of the doubt first thing. Your sister definitely sounds like a piece of work. Who knows what is motivating this behavior?!

In the interest of self preservation, you may just have to back off for a while. It won't be easy. I too have a similar situation with a loved one; it has been going on for so many years now it seems almost normal.

I agree with your thoughts regarding the telephone, it is so difficult for the elderly to talk on those flat cell phones. We keep an old desk style phone for mom's use.

Good luck with this situation. I'll be praying your sister wakes up tomorrow with a different attitude.

All I get from APS is voice mail and no call backs. Daughter takes mother to DR. She is sure to cause a scene if I show up. Unless that too has been blocked w/o my mother’s knowledge, there are no appointments scheduled for her even though she had regular once a month visits to evaluate effectiveness of medications. I had several times in the past accompanied my mother to, and been in the exam room with my mother at the Doctor’s office so I am no stranger to that.

TXCAMPER... Yah I guess this is getting to be rather lengthily so I’ll provide a quick rundown on the situation and also answer some of your questions/concerns that were not previously addressed.

The phone is a hard wired line that I installed myself. It hangs in the wall and had an extra long cord on the handset so my mother can sit in her chair while talking. This phone and the phone I had installed at her previous residence received a call from me, and up until recently was answered by my mom EVERY DAY. Reason for hard line was that if she set the phone down to go do whatever, she could follow the cord to find where she had set it down. It never got lost between the cushions, buried under papers, dropped on floor and kicked under furniture, and the battery never goes dead. She had, and I was intending to get her a low cost replacement, a cell that I tried to make sure she always took with her whenever she left the house. Her private phone in her private space (not as private as she wants) did not disturbed or intrude upon others, and gave my mother the independence and freedom of will to make and receive calls from whoever and whenever she wanted. The other people living in the house only have cell phones and when they leave the house, so does the cell which would, if she didn’t have her own private line, leave my mother without any way to communicate with the outside world. This may be an option for your MIL. W/O the bells and whistles, and with the senior discount, the Land Line is rather inexpensive (my mother’s bill is $11.08 per month) and by FAR beats the cost of cell... unless MIL makes a lot of long distance calls.

I managed my mother’s funds for over 2 years. I know what the expenses are and made sure my mother had petty cash to spend for the everyday things (cash that seemed to vanish even when nobody else took my mom shopping), and money for food in the form if a gift card to limit amounts spent feeding the whole damn house. The problem was cash being drawn in amounts greater than the amount due on the bills that were suppose to be paid by check, that were instead being paid by money-order, credit card?

Even though it wouldn’t have hurt the daughter a damn bit to do things like clean my mother’s living space once in a while, she was not pressured to do so, and I was in fact working with the Health Care Coordinator to get a Homemaker to come in to do cleaning and other miscellaneous things. Even though the daughter more or less turned the place into a “flop house” for extra income, efforts to secure outside help for my mother were checked, blocked, derailed and otherwise prevented from happening because she (the daughter) didn’t want strangers coming into the house. Except for providing a meal once in a while, and doing whatever she volunteered to do, the daughter was expected to be, and was for the most part nothing more than a landlord.

Though for the most part the daughter unaware, my mother always knew when I was coming over. I always called my mom 2 hours before I intended to be there (at mom’s request because she said it takes her that long to get ready), when I left the house so she would know I was on my way, and when I arrived so she would know I was coming in the door. When the daughter changed the code on the door lock and would not tell me the code, it was necessary for my mom to unlock the door for me. I never wander around other areas of the house. I came in and we went down to my mother’s living area. The only common area I passed through to get to my mother’s room was the kitchen. The daughter is not “inconvenienced” in any way.

If you restrict access to your MIL to only those you feel are worthy, then you are a jailer not a host. You sound like a host. Is my mother’s daughter a jailer?

TwoOfFive...tough situation you are in. I notice you never call your mother's daughter your "sister" and I fully understand, since I have a hard time bestowing the name "sister" on my own female sibling - usually call her "socio sis" since she's a sociopath, which some narcissists are as well. I have done extensive reading over the past 7 years to get a handle on what I am dealing with - so many things about her were such a mystery to me all my life - and found that she is a textbook case. So your story and issues sound pretty familiar to me and what I have had to deal with...

Here's my take on it: your sister is using her control over access to your mom as a power play over you. Some people can't resist abusing any little bit of power and control they are entrusted with. I think your sister knows you want to be actively involved in your mom's life and so by acting as the self-designated gatekeeper, she is using her control over your mom to squeeze you out. This is how undue influence works...the sibling that has all the access uses every opportunity to alienate you from your mom. It's very covert and insidious...she whispers negative things about you in your mom's ear, eye rolls, snide remarks, intercepts cards and letters you send to your mom, fails to tell your mom you called, tells your mom she is the "only one that cares", reminds your mom that you haven't called in a while, etc. In 1,001 ways, day in and day out, she convinces your mom that you just don't care about her like she does. It's payback for sibling issues from the past I believe. It's desperately wanting to be the favored child. It's usually the one that has accomplished the least in life, so they feel very needing of approval and attached to the parent(s) because they are still dependent on them. But she fails to see how much she is hurting your mom in the process of trying to exclude you. Complicating matters further, if there is a large estate involved, then the sibling steps up her game even more ruthlessly to destroy your relationship with your mother in hopes of hijacking your potential inheritance as well. That way it's a real home-run for the controlling sibling.

So your choices are to 1) Just let your sister have what she wants or 2) fight for your right to be in your mom's life.

After giving my options some serious thought I decided on option #1. I decided that all that would come of a legal battle and/or involving APS would be that my mom might end up in the care of a stranger. She would put the blame for the whole nasty battle squarely on me. I decided since she is happy with this arrangement I would butt out and let my sister "win". I have emotionally detached from my mom enough to have sort of a "take it or leave it" attitude when it comes to contact. I still call her every week or so, but am never surprised if she doesn't answer. Last time I called both her land line and cell phone, she answered neither and I couldn't leave a message because both mailboxes were full. So I went on with my day and tried again a few days later. No problem. If I get concerned that it's been a while I email or call my brother and ask him how she's doing. He keeps loosely in touch with her and lives in the same city. All my siblings live there so I'm not too worried about my mom not getting enough care from me, since I can't do much for her from a state away. I do send her cards and gifts for special occasions. I just took my involvement and emotional attachment to her down a few notches. My sister can deal with it without my unwanted input and that way we're all happy.

I know how torn you must feel between wanting to do all you can for your mother, staying in her life, and not wanting to rock the boat. But the reality is that your sister is in the driver's seat and you are locked in the trunk. If your mother is happy with that arrangement then I would just go with it. Your sister will fight like a badger until you give her what she wants, and then don't be too surprised if she doesn't want it anymore. No difference than toddlers in the playroom...one will fight a toy away from the other, then a minute later the toy is sitting in the corner by itself as the "winner" no longer wants it. Sad that they put their own mother in the middle of a tug-of-war.

When you say the private phone is going unanswered, have you asked if it is still even connected? Perhaps there wasn't enough usage to warrant keeping a separate line. My MIL at one point had a cell phone. She brought it with her when she moved in with us and eventually couldn't remember how to place a call or even hear it when it rang. Talking on it was a nightmare. So we had it cut off. Perhaps some people didn't know our home number and were then unable to reach her. Anyway, I'm just throwing out a theory. Maybe there is no point in maintaining a separate line for your mother.

It's always a shame when brothers and sisters don't get along. Your sister may be doing perfectly well by your mother, and of course, there are expenses involved and she will have to spend some money. That's what your mother's money is for. It's just that you don't like being out of the loop.

It's not picnic caregiving for elders. There are a lot of emotional and physical things going on that your sister is going to have to deal with for her ownself, in addition to the care of your mother. If she is constantly second-guessed and hammered with questions from her brothers, then she may react by withdrawing. That's not proper, but it might be self-defensive. Cut her some slack for a while, play nice and see if things change. It may take a while, time passes at different speeds for some people than for others.

Because Mom isn't in her private home anymore, access may be a little bit more on your sister's terms than you like. It isn't always convenient to have people, even a brother, come and go at will. Sometimes phone calls come at awkward times. There are baths, naps, meals, therapy sessions, all kinds of reasons why Mom can't talk on the phone right now. Ask for her to call you back when it's convenient to talk. Offer to give your sister some respite time. Bet she would love that. Make the offer to be at her choice and she'll appreciate it even more. Call some time just to talk to sis. Ask how mom is, but don't make a big deal out of talking to her. Sometimes we overlook the caregiver and forget that they have feelings too. I was reminded of this a few years ago, when sis would call and I would automatically hand the phone to mom. Sis said "hey, sometimes I just want to talk to you".

Anyway, I wish you good luck with whatever you decide to do. There are no winners in the sibling wars. Sorry this is so long, and of course, it is only an opinion.

I always see a red flag when someone tries to isolate a vulnerable person such as your mother. Speak again with the adult protective service worker. Make sure you ask their findings. Maybe you can attend a dr. appointment with mom and speak to the doctor about her mental status.

I had a draft I started, but with all that has been going in I seemed to have lost it so I have to start from scratch. For ME this takes a long time, so this is a short version. :(

This state does provide forms and instructions, and before all this crap started with the daughter I had considered becoming my mother's POA Getting all the necessary people in place to meet the required criteria, and stand up to the challenge her daughter would be sure to make, was proving to be problematic and I didn't get it done. Again, my bad. :(

Daughter becoming POA however will satisfy the accountability I was demanding when daughter was writing checks to herself and drawing cash from the account. I will be all over her forcing her to have verifiable documentation for every penny that is drawn from my mother's account. Give her enough rope....
If you are doing zero wrong you should have zero worry, but to keep peace in the family and avoid any disharmony, I would suggest running any big changes or major expenditures past the other sibs to see how they feel about it. At least then it wouldn't be a surprise or shock to them if they don't like it.

The MAJOR problem here, the the forced seclusion and alienation of my mother from friends and family is yet to be solved. Younger brothers that only occasionally contacted my mother in the past, may now be getting involved because they too are getting no answer when they call my mother's private phone. Older brother that lives out of state may be working against me. I hope to hear more about possible strategies or solutions to this abuse/problem.

APS is Adult Protective Services which is run by your state or county Dept of Human Services. It's sort of like Child Protection Services which investigates child abuse cases, but APS investigates vulnerable adult abuse or neglect or just plain vulnerable adults who are housebound and not getting the care they need. They also can investigate claims that someone has defrauded a vulnerable adult, and that could include the unscrupulous lawyers or financial planners who skim off their accounts. And POA's who are not doing their job. As you can imagine there has to be strong evidence of wrongdoings and not just general disgruntlement. It also behooves POA's to keep accurate records of all their activities for their principal, just in case siblings or others decide, hey I don't like what I think is happening, I'm gonna report it to APS and thus making a lot of work for the POA to defend theirselves to APS and to their siblings. Gives me the heeby-jeebies just to realize, one or more or all of my sibs could decide to band together against me.....but there is zero that I am doing wrong, so I'm OK. But still. Not any fun if you're the POA.

I'm sorry. I am drawing a blank... a senior moment perhaps. What is APS?

I understand what a POA can and can not do. I had been researching that before this mess ever happened, but now that I have been cut off from my mother there is no way I can pursue it. I also understand that firing a POA is a lot easier than getting one designated. Again I would need access to my mother, and who knows what this... her daughter would do next if that were to happen. I would not risk my mother's health to do something like that until there were safeguards in place to protect my mother.

I already have unrestricted "visitation" rights and so does my mother. It is the daughter that is interfering, quelling or otherwise preventing my mother and myself from exercising of those rights.

Free/low cost lawyers are not going to do any more than they have to and some may even say there is nothing that can be done unless I am prepared with facts, case law, specific state/federal law... and even then if it looks like it is going to take "too much time" I'll get blown off. Yah a bit cynical but it's not like there is a whole lot of competition to get these free/low cost cases and the resources to obtain free/low cost legal aid/assistance/advice is like only 1 or 2. to obtain.

Sorry for rambling and my apologies to any attorneys that do not fit my generalization about lawyers.

Thanks for the kind words.

Jeanne Gibbs is right, just because someone has dementia or early ALZ does not by itself mean that person cannot rewrite their POA or will. The senior person doesn't even need to be able to sign their name anymore it can be accomplished in other ways (witnesses and talking, perhaps videotape). A lawyer is not always needed, but can lend credence, especially if the lawyer videotapes their interview with the senior. And sister should be nowhere near ANY of these proceedings. In fact, sister cannot even suggest to mom "I think that everything would work out better if you changed the POA to be me....." The whole idea has to originate with the senior, and the senior should initiate the request with the lawyer. However in my state they recognize not everyone has $800 for a lawyer, so they actually posted the DPOA & MPOA forms online especially with instructions (and solemn warnings) so that people can do it without a lawyer. It is completely legal. My mom has revises her MPOA tbis way, instead of going back to the lawyer, when the 2nd MPOA bowed out. She saved a lot of money by simply having me download the forms and then she filled it out on her own & got it notarized (I was nowhere around). She is able to do this legally because her mind is still sharp and able to think thru to what this action actually is, for her current & future needs. Someone who is not able to remember names might be OK to change their documents--but NOT at the suggestion of someone "interested" in that change. They could discuss, how is your current POA working out for you, or, did you realize your current POA has been writing checks on your account, did you know about that in advance? The right & moral thing to do, if someone sees something "not right " like checks being written without prior knowledge, is to tell the senior about it, ask if that is OK, and if they want that kind of behavior to possibly continue into the future (and after they're dead if the current POA is also the Executor.....). Technically you don't need to go to the lawyer--but steps should be taken to ensure there are no nagging "questions " about how the change was made. Such as videotaping the discussions, and hearing & seeing the senior described why they made the change. And keep several copies of this video in separate computers and a hard drive.

What has APS done/said about this situation?

POA does not give Sister the authority to screen Mom's visitors and callers.

Mother is the only one who can designate a POA. A decent lawyer will question her and determine that she does understand what she is doing and that she is not doing it under duress. It might be difficult to successfully accuse Sister of a crime if a lawyer has been involved. If Sister uses a DIY approach, that may be another matter.

Competency is determined by a court, usually informed by doctor statements. It is not based on what has or hasn't been signed by the person.

My heart goes out to you, your mother, and your other siblings if Sister is indeed Narcissistic. I think the only way you can fight someone like that is legally. Think through what you want to achieve by visiting a lawyer. I would imagine that unrestricted visitation rights would be on your list. What else? Have very specific goals in mind before you consult an attorney.

As I see it my mother is not that far gone that she can't make her own decisions about her own life even if she is easily manipulated. Or perhaps I am in denial. The will, if there actually was one, was made many years ago. I have learned that they (daughter and her son) have consulted an attorney about becoming my mother's POA.... or perhaps more. Must all family members be notified if a petition has been filed with the court concerning guardianship? If in fact it is for POA, which does not give anyone power to dictate what my mother can and can not do with her own personal life, such granting of the POA is proof positive that my mother is capable of understanding and therefor capable of making her own decisions. Yes, she does forget things, She knows who "that girl upstairs" is, she just can't always remember the name of "that girl upstairs". No it's not that cut and dried, but still, if the POA is secured and my mom is NOT competent, than the daughter has committed a crime that is NOT subjective, and she can be prosecuted for criminal abuse of a vulnerable person. Yes given enough rope the daughter will hang herself and take her son down with her, but that still does not resolve the current issues, and I can't just sit idly by and do nothing.

Just as a point of information, many people who have dementia are still competent to make wills and to make/change POA documents. It depends on their level of understanding, not a specific diagnosis.

2of5, the problem I see with what you describe, is, if in fact your mom has dementia/memory problems, she is then no longer legally able to write a Will, or designate a POA, or to change these (if they were done previously....). So your only choice now is to file a claim for Guardianship and by prepared that someone local to your mom will be chosen. Or perhaps the judge could see fit to move mom closer to you. Best wishes. Please update your progress, we all love to hear of happy resolution to these situations.

Yes the big blow-out does have to do with my mother's finances that I have directly and indirectly assisted my mother with for the last 2 - 1/2 years w/o any problems, but that amount is sooooo far under the poverty level that.... well the issue here is not the money. My mother says she did make a will at one of those senior workshop things that she says she wants to change, but I have never seen it and don't know that it actually exists. I have been trying very hard to find my mom's friends, but at at age 85 you can understand why not many living friends can be found. Having been bounced around from one location to another for the past 7 years, there is no minister to consult with. Why would a daughter do this to her own mother and siblings? It was always hard to describe just what kind of egotistic person the daughter is, and always has been, until I ran across the word narcissistic which pretty much sums it up in one word. Removal of my mother from this house and the grips of her daughter, or a legal means of preventing the daughter's interfering, discouraging, restricting or otherwise preventing my mother's free will to associate, communicate, or be with any person she of her choosing, and preventing the daughter from constantly making derogatory remarks by gesture, body language or verbally about other people (notably me and anyone else that doesn't cower to the daughter) directly to, in front of my mother.

Obviously this sister is angry about something. Is she mad because no one else can or will take mom? Are siblings asking mom about her assets and her Will? Is there someone like a trusted friend or minister who can help sort that out and find a way to make peace?

"by vulture of the fact". Fact is mother has 2 little noisy and sometimes aggressive dogs that she refuses to leave in the care of another person, so the daughters house was the only choice open to her when she was forced to move. Mother lived alone the year previous to moving in with daughter, with only a homemaker to help her out, a neighbor hired to walk the dogs, and of course me at least twice a month. Mother qualifies for a few hours a day for a PCA to take care of her needs. Daughter not is necessary, other than providing shelter for which she is paid a pittance, perhaps more now that daughter has seized control of mother's finances but paid non the less, but by virtue of the fact....

My bad... mother is 85 not 65. Adult protective services have been notified but that seems to be going nowhere. I can not in good conscious ignore what is happening to my mom just because of what the end result may be, and in fact by ignoring the abuse there is an even greater likelihood that her daughter would be made guardian rather than myself, the person that since a couple of months ago till the time of a guardianship hearing (months, years?), even though the isolation was forced, has had no contact with (eg no interest in) my mother.
Even a "neutral" outsider would be preferable to the continued abused inflected upon my mother by her daughter. I am seeking suggestions on how to legally prevent the daughter from blocking/interfering with personal and phone contact with my mom so that amongst other things, I can monitor for signs of actual actionable psychical abuse. I hope for some ideas to be armed with when I do go see a lawyer, which, even though I can't afford, will have to hire.
Thanks

....love the "by vulture of the fact", it painted a perfect picture !

Well I suppose you aren't going to obtain any resolution to your concerns by talking with the daughter....so you'll need to write a letter saying what you want, and mail it certified return receipt signature. If that doesn't help then talk with a lawyer, and also maybe Adult Protective services. But keep your mom's welfare first & foremost in mind, because the result of your digging around might be that mom is placed into facility care. And judges awarding guardianship usually do not award it to either side of fighting siblings--they award to a neutral 3rd party.