I was wondering how some of you feel about your governor's planning of starting to open up businesses?

Without testing (wide spread testing) it is a dangerous game. Well, so many of the 10% just want their economy back and if a few (2-5%) of us peasants have to die to get it...well...it is a small percent, and they should be glad to die to bring the economy back for them...right?

Riverdale, we're not only not able to buy paint, but can't buy garden supplies at HD or Lowe's.   I'm not sure about grocery stores although they have a nominal selection anyway, and following the governor's mandate, probably will just move the gardening stands out of customer reach.

In addition we can't hire landscapers, so for those of us who can't or don't mow lawns, we either let them grow taller and face citation by cities, or we hope some goats will wander over and feed on our lawns.   I'm hoping for the latter; goats need to eat too.

I do think that those who refuse to maintain proper distance and refuse to wear masks are hazards and should be following those guidelines.  However, after the wild protest in the state capitol yesterday, I don't think there's as much actual understanding of the mandate as there is the desire to inject presidential politics into the mix.   

I've only been out 3 times since Feb., for laundry and groceries.   And now I really don't want to go out; I just dread waiting in the longer grocery lines if I don't get up around 5 am to shop during the early Senior hours.   And I also will resent it if anyone gets near me and isn't wearing a mask.

Tempers are beginning to flare, for a variety of reasons, but I've had it and have no sympathy for those who refuse to at least mask.

I have mixed feelings about opening up now.  I don't feel it's appropriate b/c the virus is far from under control.  OTOH, I'm haven't heard any traceable statistics verifying that closures are effective.    The infection chain needs to be traced to really determine how and where infections are transmitted, and that's not being done.  

The one advantage about having a junky looking house is that hopefully it'll be less of a temptation to criminals, which I anticipate are going to start crawling out of their rat holes as opportunities present themselves, especially if food lines become as long as those in San Antonio and people are away from their houses for hours.

I think one can make a personal choice to stay home or stay home more if restrictions are lifted.

One daughter of ours is in Houston and this is devastating to their small business. They can do some online business but they have specific inventory meant for this present time period. They are offering discounts and free shipping as incentives as well as curbside pickup for those interested but they are sitting on a large amount of inventory meant for this time period.

I am truly sorry for those sick and the tremendous loss of life. I am also concerned how those of us will be able to endure a fractured economy. My busband and I are fortunate as we are retired. I am more concerned for the generations after us.

i have read about your restrictions and watched the protest of people in their cars. I hope your governor does not win re-election. I think her choices are awful. Not being able to buy paint and not allowing landscapers to buy their needs is terrible. I wish she could be forced to remove these barbaric restrictions.

here’s another side on allowing all aisles open.... HD, Lowe’s, Ace are open all sections for us (Louisiana coastal). I’ve been to all 3 as flurry of extension cords, lighting etc as hubs WFH. I’m the shopper as he’s at risk. At HD & Lowe’s, I’ve seen lil 4-6 person family groups carousing the aisles, 1 had grandma too. Not shopping but a get out of the house family fun-day field trip; kids playing in the kitchen & outdoor design sections, gramma sitting in one of those plantation chairs scrolling her phone, the paint sample area at one looked like it had been raided for arts n crafts, the build a pond / water display had a frickin toy in it. Not a single one wearing masks or gloves. These folks were not shopping, not buying stuff, paying and getting out. Like the employees don’t have enough work stress to deal with.

HD did get water fountains sealed up & moved the coke machines out somewhere and put the snacks/ candy bar bins next to customer service last week tho’. So yeah I can understand why having nonessential items cordened off or covered up can be a good thing.

Our stores are limiting the number of people allowed in the building and we can still buy anything.

My washer broke down and the appliance repair house was open, you order on the phone and pay, when you get to the facility you call and they put it outside for you to pick up. I think lots of stores are doing business this way.

Thankfully, because we can't imagine how difficult this would be having to deal with broke down household necessities and not being able to get parts. What if it was your fridge? Yikes.

Michigan is governed by a complete idiot. I think that people tend to live up to expectations of them. I hope that she is prepared for the consequences of her expectations of her fellow man living in MI. I hear reports of companies making their employees collect unemployment, because they are supposed to be closed and then requiring them to work for free. Sounds like fraud to me. But she is not even dealing with these types of situations, maybe it's getting in the way of her camera time?

I feel very blessed to live in a state that has a governor that has loads of common sense and runs the state in a manner that brings some security to the table. I know that he is looking at the big picture and makes good decisions to keep things as safe and normal as possible. Like feeding our truckers and giving them a safe place to rest. Helping our supply chains and essential workers remain safe and cared for so the rest of us can continue to have our basic necessities met and then some. It's great to see how the community is working together to help those that risk their lives to be there for others.

I think that my state will be opened in a safe process, intended to get back to business without needlessly endangering anyone.

However, you can't fix stupid and there will always be people that rebel against common sense and fly in the face of doing anything for anyone else. So be it, I just pray that they suffer the consequences of their choices and not others.

Here in Utah, all restaurants are closed for 'indoor eating' but most are open for curbside pickup. DH and I are trying to support local small restaurants by eating 'out' more than normal.

Most stores are open, but someone is cleaning the carts before you use them. Some small businesses are closed, others aren't.

Some people are wearing masks, most, in fact, but many are not. We really don't even know if they help, but it does give us a sense of 'control'.

We do social distancing, any 'visiting' is done outdoors on the doorstep. We haven't had church in 6 weeks and no end in sight for that. Many of my neighbors don't even go outside, and that, I think, is kind of ridiculous. Sunshine and fresh air is important. Also, being stuck indoors is leading to depression and anxiety. I think I am OK and then I have a rotten night--can't sleep, nightmares and anxiety. PLUS we've been having sizable earthquakes, something over which we have zero control.

I hear we are going to have a 'soft open' around May 1st. Some places will be opened for shorter hours, slowly easing us back into normalcy.

Yes, at that time there will be an uptick in deaths---but it is impossible for us to continue in lockdown mode forever.

I have a daughter who is moving back to Utah from VA in a month or so. They are struggling, do they drive or fly and have the cars towed? It's a risk either way.
I'm just sick to my stomach thinking of them staying in random hotels for 4 nights.

On top of all of this, I am still recovering from cancer and last week came down with shingles. I KNOW it's due to stress, but still. About the last thing I need.

Trying to be upbeat and positive and sharing that feeling and attitude (which I often don't really feel!) with my neighbors and family is exhausting me.

And I fully agree--we have people who are flouting the rules right now--just being jerks about using common sense--you're right--you can't fix stupid!

Mid, our middle child is pregnant with her second child in Park City,due in August. I am so glad they were able to relocate from SF in the past year. The daycare is of course closed but they were able to hire someone for half a day since they can work from home and she and her husband have alot of work due to their fields of work. She has said she is cooking every night. I love it there but I have left NY and snow so that aspect makes me only want to visit. I was there last June. We hope we can go around the time of new baby's arrival.

I do not understand the thinking behind restricting home improvement purchases like paint or restricting yard work which normally includes social distancing. The home improvement stores are huge with very few people for the space under normal conditions. Our local Lowe's has had a pickup service where you could order online and pickup from a special counter just inside the door for a couple of years; now they will bring your order out to the curb. Even smaller hardware stores tend to have a lot less customer density than any grocery or target/walmart.

During a "stay at home" period, being able to paint and make other small self improvements to your home can be a good project to occupy yourself or your family. Having something productive to do is also good for mental health! I've got the kids putting down patio pavers around my porches and an area adjacent to the 10'x24' storage building (otherwise known as the toy barn due to its contents). I purchased raised garden bed frames and plan on planting tomatoes, cucumbers, carrots and string beans around May 10. My window sills contain cottage cheese cartons of plants just waiting for the overnight freeze warnings to clear. I have a little bet going with my nephew that I'm going to harvest more tomatoes and cucumbers from my little raised garden than the main garden will produce. Because of the heat and humidly, we tend to have a problem with tomato blight which I will avoid completely with the raised beds (better drainage and watering the soil instead of the plants).

I have purchased a gazebo kit for the kids to build (with my supervision) this summer. My idea of social distancing includes pushing the kids outside into the 5 acre yard as much as practical. We're going to open the above ground pool as soon as possible too since the chlorine in the pool water kills viruses.

Some of my friends working in retail are complaining about people making "non-essential" purchases but I think a lot of their complaints are more about not being able to consider what may be secondary needs for other households. Food and household supplies are primary essential needs, but there are other important secondary needs too. One grand-nephew is in a growing phase and as the temperatures are warming, he doesn't have much summer appropriate clothing because nothing he wore last summer fits anymore; he can't even get his athletic or jean shorts over his hips. Coloring books or a plastic water table toy may not seem like essential purchases either unless you are staying at home with a couple of younger children. If you are already going to a walmart like store for groceries, I don't see brief trips through the men's department or toy section or using the pickup service for these purchases as greatly increasing your infection risk.

We are not going to have a CV vaccine for a year and we cannot stay in total isolation until then. We are going to have to use mail order and thoughtful local shopping to manage our exposure risks and prevent wide spreads of the disease.

If you want to stay in, you should.  The government should be the least restrictive as it can

I think a lot of the pushback is coming from rules that seem arbitrary and senseless; why is one store safer than any other, why can I buy groceries a Walmart but not shoes, why are people being fined for letting their kids use the swings in a deserted park or their dogs run in the no leash areas, why do some businesses get to do curbside pickups and deliveries while others are not no matter how safely and intelligently? Where I live the vast majority of the problem seems to be centred in nursing homes as well as high density urban areas, I think that allowing for a phased in regional approach - ever vigilant for any sign of new outbreaks, and that relies on timely testing - could, perhaps even should take place soon. But then those of us in Ontario who live outside the golden horseshoe are used to political management that forgets their issues are very often not the same as ours.

Riverdale,

Re Michigan's Governor:   I think she's going to learn her lesson the hard way.  The protest on Wednesday made national headlines and news.   If she was attempting to bring the State to compliance and lessen the potential of CV expansion, she went about it the wrong way.

Biden isn't going to want someone who's drawn that kind of negative response.   Notwithstanding her denials, she is a political animal.   But I can't see any way she'd be a candidate for VP after this week.

It also needs to be said though that the protest wasn't limited to her mandates.   Many of the people, especially the ones clowning around, with a bullhorn, standing on a car or other activities, are to me the kind of people who respond to instructions by others in their political party to go out and protest.   

This was a political action, in part for the upcoming election, more than protest against a stay at home mandate. 
-------------------------------------

Igloo,

you raise good points as well.   I think HD and Lowe's were "go to" places for weekends, with the guys shopping for tools and supplies, and the family tagging along to make it more of a social occasion.    I don't recall seeing many people resting or playing with their phones, but it wouldn't surprise me.    And those people certainly do NOT need to be in public during a pandemic.

What I objected to are the expansive restrictions, which actually became ludicrous this morning when she issued an extension for pesticide applications, stating that they help provide "safe food" for Michiganders.  Ha!   She obviously knows nothing about the superiority of organic gardening.   

As soon as I read that, I suspected that either the chemical, or specifically the pesticide industry, was behind this.  

Now we need the lawn mowing industry to put pressure on her as well.
--------------------------------

TNTechie,

good points made on the shopping issues.   What I'm suspecting happened is that either the Michigan agricultural or pesticide industry lobbied or put pressure on the governor.   The limitations she enacted are just too specific to have been considered as part of the social distancing plans.

However, I think she's  done herself more harm than good.   And she'll pay for it either when Biden chooses someone else as a running mate or when she runs for re-election.
----------------------------------

CWillie

Well said.    It isn't easy to create a balance, but it has to be done, by all.   

We're reading of some horror tales in nursing homes, just abject neglect, but I also understand that (a) nursing homes don't have access to the personnel or supplies that hospitals have, even though they're also in short supply, and (b) hospitals are also highly publicized since they're the ones on which so much relies.

What I'm learning and reading of now are that employees are being furloughed, as cases decline, but also that workers are burned out, hospitals are taking stands more like the corporate employers that some of them are, and some hospital employees are protesting, publicly.  

-----------------------------------

MidKid,

Your description sounds like what existed here, before Whitmer went off on an isolationist spree.  It leaves discretion to the public, which is something that's compromised with mandatory expansive and punishing edicts.
----------------------------------

FloridaDD,

Good, basic guidelines.   Let's KISS ( keep it simple stupid), if the politicians can understand this.
----------------------------------

IsthisReallyReal,

So I'm not the only who's observed Whitmer's performances for cameras.   Gov. Cuomo and others are somber, as befits updates that are provided.   Grinning and smiling at the camera like one smiles at babies does not convey sincerity or concern.
----------------------------------
KatieKate,

Important issue:   widespread testing.    I won't even get into the political issues of that!      But it's GOT to be enabled, and  to be done. 

How do I feel about my Gov's plans? In a word, disgusted. I live in Michigan too. I noticed the Gov appears on television with perfectly dyed hair while mine is going gray because I am not going to the stylist. This governor also has perfectly polished nails, bright white teeth, and what looks suspiciously like botox in her forehead because it is so flat. In my life, I am going gray haired, had my dentist cancel my teeth cleaning appointment, and I used to get botox but am letting my wrinkles now show proudly. This governor clearly is not adhering to her own mandates she imposed on the citizens. It is so hard to even look at her.
The demonstration in the state capitol was meant to get this Gov's attention to change oppressive policies. Her only public response was to berate the citizens for not adhering to wearing gloves and keeping distance. More hatred and contempt swirling around and more lack of leadership.

GingerMay, I thought at first that I might be succumbing to female cattiness when I saw Whitmer panning for the camera, hair in place, perfectly made up, and grinning like the Cheshire Cat.    My thought was that she wasn't expressing sincere concern for us Michiganders, but was auditioning, perhaps for VP since Biden already expressed an interest in her as a running mate.

I was angry when she banned HD, Lowes and others from selling garden supplies, and when she also banned use of lawn mowing services.   The town in which I live is often hostile to residents.    When I asked them how they would handle overgrown lawns, I was advised that mandates that lawns be kept below 7" remain, and that if I hired a lawn care service, I  would be fined!

So I get fined if I can't mow the damn lawn, and fined if I hire someone.  That's a disgusting position for any resident to be in. 

But I was livid this morning when I read that she made an excuse for pesticide companies...of all things - toxic waste sprayers!    To me that was comparable to allowing those nosy and pesky religious canvassers the right to canvas homeowners while we can't even cross the street to visit neighbors.   

Now she's totally on my bad candidate list; I will never vote for her again, and I hope the Dem Party finds a good candidate to replace her.

I think it may be May 15th here too. But I am staying home until I determine I feel okay about going out there. I frankly don't trust anyone to determine what the best is right now for me, so I am staying home. I go to the store every 2 weeks, and I wear a mask, balaclava, and I wash my hands, clothes, and shower when I come home. I wipe the groceries and my car handles down too. My mom is in a facility and thank God they are all fine.

Looks like the virus might be starting to heat up in rural areas. Some governors are smart enough to put regs in place before the explosions and learn the lessons of Italy, Spain and NYC. The results remain to be seen, of course.

Good luck all. NY appears to be starting to flatten the exponential level of infection.

Laboring, asymptomatic women in NYC are being tested at admission; at one reporting hospital, 14% are COVID positive. A friend at another hospital tells me their rate is 27%.

That's the rate of infection among folks with no symptoms. I'm not pressing anyone to open ANYTHING. We are still in very dangerous territory.

My husband is a physician and was assigned to New Orleans. He turned in retirement papers to get to leave New Orleans. The state medical group he is affiliated with then loaned him to New York. He’s been NYC since last Friday. He is being threatened with losing his pension if he leaves NYC. Our own community has had zero cases of Covid. I have closed his office completely. He’s done with being assigned to disasters with no pay and done with accepting low reimbursements for Medicare and Medicaid patients. He is a part owner of local nursing home. They are shutting down Medicare rehab beds and long term Medicaid beds. It’s a losing proposition for he and his partners. Covid has brought to the front some of the problems with the healthcare system. There needs to be a better way.

People need to wear masks/gloves. Stay in and distance except when necessary. Use common sense. And common sense applies to the government and governors as well - get more testing.

Bridger, I take it that he is military? My beat thoughts to you both during this trying time. ((((Hugs)))))). I'm so glad we have docs who are able to come to NY!

Barb Brooklyn, Not military. He’s part of a state wide rural health physicians group. In return for assistance with schooling, one commits to serving in rural health area for a certain amount of time. He likes rural health and opened his own practice in a rural area and stays affiliated with the group. But in the last 10 years it’s become a losing proposition.

I hear from so many of my MD frienss that medicine is not what they thought it would be. Is he posted to NYC?

(((Hugs)))))

Yes he’s working at free clinic that had requested help.

Medicine isn’t what it used to be. We discouraged both of our sons to go into another profession.

My little state has 32k positives, but we have a lot of testing here.
I am more than happy to stay in with those numbers as I also have COPD,but if I owned a business I suspect I would feel differently.

Maybe governors are power hungry and underestimate the intelligence of the people.

Proverbs 22:3 New Living Translation (NLT)
A prudent person foresees danger and takes precautions.
The simpleton goes blindly on and suffers the consequences.

It's too soon. People are still dying!

When I'm in Wal-Mart getting groceries I make a point to avoid other people as much as possible. I try to go down empty isles even if I have to wait for it to clear out. Then I see young people in there with babies or several children and they're not even wearing masks. I realize that they're not as likely to get it but they should have respect for the elderly.

As for the folks having their "family fun day" at Lowe's or HD.......keep your butts at home if you have no business there! I was reading a story earlier about a HD employee who died. His daughter and his fellow employees talked about how much he loved his job there. So we should all be respectful of the employees that are putting themselves at risk to serve us.

I say no. People (not implying posters in this thread) want what will benefit their situation. Younger folks want to open everything up again, because they know they are at lower risk. And remember that originally this pandemic was sometimes referred to as "Boomer Doomer" and "Boomer Remover." Now that it's known that younger people ARE contracting the virus, sometimes with complications for someone who does not already have health issues, I don't see that so much anymore.

People with secure paychecks or pensions don't think things need to open up too soon. People who have lost their jobs (and haven't had their unemployment claims go through) or who are about to lose their businesses are desperate for things to open back up. (Don't get me going about the clusterf*#K of the Payroll Protection Plan loan program that has now run out of money, and its mismanagement...)

What it all comes down to is what is the acceptable balance between lives lost vs the economy. And it could be individual to a state or locality in the U.S. Lives will be lose when things reopen until there are criteria are met which are nowhere near being satisfied.

I want to come back and clarify that when I said we need a plan to open up soon I wasn't thinking of the next few days or even the next couple of weeks, that would be insane.

What does "soon" mean? Read this: https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/04/17/us/coronavirus-testing-states.html

The original models have been demonstrated to be incorrect. What's more, economies have been devastated, many businesses have already collapsed, and states can't even handle the unemployment benefits. If you are in a high-risk demographic...stay home. We cannot protect a few people (98% of all people who get this recover) to destroy the lives of millions. So many people have no jobs. I distribute food for a food bank and it's heart-breaking so many people have no money to feed themselves. Elective surgeries, screenings for diseases for cancer (mammograms, for example), dental procedures all put on hold--and many of these save lives. The current statistics say that the risk of coronovirus is the same as driving 9 miles in your car. How can we justify staying closed? My mother is seriously ill and in a senior home, and I fully support the quarantines that are placed on where she lives. But if I didn't support it, I would remove her to my own home. But for the rest of the country, allow people to go back to their normal lives.

I live in NJ one of the hardest hit States. Most of our cases are from the Counties close to NYC but the virus is trickling down. Our Govenor and 2 other surrounding States do not agree with the President. North Jersey is leveling off but they still have cases. Nothing showing that the virus is dying off.

Here in the South, my County has 107cs, so far, with 4 deaths and thats since Mar 27th. They keep saying we will see a surge. Testing is being done now, so our numbers will rise. Only those with symptoms wil, be tested. Though. We r closed down till middle of May.

People are already not complying. Were I live is the last exit from 295 and the NJ turnpike. We have seen cars stopping in our gas stations and convenience stores from NY state. Why are these people not being kept out of NJ? Why do they need to travel?

Just my opinion, but I think the shutdowns are part necessary and rationalized, but also part of governors not knowing what else to do.     Despite experiencing epidemics before, there were inadequate measures in place to deal with something of this magnitude.    That's a significant failure.

That includes not only supplies, but assessment of options.   And it especially focuses on LACK of adequate supplies and testing options, all the way from the front line medical and first responders down to the population throughout the nation.

People like those who protested in Michigan on Wed. flaunt authority and get away with it.    They should be ticketed and fined.    So, do the shutdowns really accomplish compliance with everyone?  No.    

Shutdowns are a blanket response to individual noncompliance, and that includes governors who, for example, want to keep beaches open as well as individuals who don't respect authority, even as it creeps toward martial law.  

Although I was initially surprised, I now think that Detroit PD is taking the right approach: ticketing and fining those who are in noncompliance.

These are stats posted yesterday, from the Detroit PD.   Inference is that these sweeps were done after the "no gardening, no painting" order.  

1.    checked over 10,000 locations
2.    given 1,614 warnings
3.    issued 736 citations
4.    shut down more than 24 parties
5.    closed 27 businesses

24 parties?  Who in their right mind would party in this environment?   THESE are the people who need to filtered out and targeted.   But lacking the time and staff to do this, blanket orders are issued.   We who are compliant suffer b/c of those who aren't.