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I think in SC it may be by early May, but nothing is official. I am pretty shocked with Michigan and not allowing paint to be bought as an example. Just wondered how others in other states feel about what is going on where you live.
Shane, I am also impressed with Governor Hogan of Maryland. Always liked him. I don't live in Maryland, I am across the Potomac in Virginia.
Here in the Commonwealth we are in lock down mode until June 10th. All schools closed last month for the rest of the semester [the Governor is a children's physician so he understands how kids are walking petri dishes]. My boss closed our office the middle of March. The hardware stores are opened and the landscapers are having a field day [no pun intended].
Some grocery stores are limiting the number of people going into the store. Whole Foods now has only one entrance and one exist so the Staff can keep track. Some shoppers had masks, others [mainly men] did not.
I couldn't find masks at the drug stores, which was odd, and this was mid-January. So something was brewing out there. Why weren't we told back then?
Sig other kept forgetting about the 6 foot rule. I grumbled at him but it fell on usual deaf ears. Then one day he was in another grocery store and got too close to a older woman shopper who was in a wheelchair.... she read him the riot act. I don't think he will forget now :) Yes, he had on his mask.
For groceries, my big orders I use the home delivery service. Instead of weekly, it is now every two weeks because of so many people using this service it very hard to reserve a time slot. I feel like I won the lottery if I get 60% of what I had ordered :)
Shell said "I know there are people who don't think this is real or any more dangerous as the flu and/or they think that "it won't happen to them," but it will and can! They have no respect for authorities and they don't respect their fellow humans or themselves!" I think it is even worse than that, they think that sickening everyone and killing 2% is reasonable price to pay and preferable to having their lives temporarily disrupted. I'm not sure what their plan would be for healthcare sectors overwhelmed by illness - perhaps we shouldn't bother treating the gravely ill?
Here in Maryland Governor Hogan gets an “A” from me. He mandated the wearing of masks last week. IMO he’s been very effective in his leadership. We have test sites, many of the PCP’s have gone Telemed, and folks are still able to see *some* specialists though most are NOT open for business. and the system, while overloaded, appears to be functioning under the circumstances.
I think the members of the President’s Task Force will evaluate the data coming in daily and go from there. Dr Fauci & Dr Birx are the best imo and I can’t see any plan to reopen America going forward without the approval of the medical community. They too are learning something new about the virus. I myself have an interest in immunology and infectious disease & am wondering about Antibody testing. Usually people develop Ab against a disease (virus) but in Covid 19 it doesn’t appear to be that way, or the antibodies disappear.
I think May 15 is a good date. We’ll have two months of self quarantine. Those exposed will have had their 14 day confinement. We have to get back to business and recoup our economic losses.
"I can't help but wonder through all this...Is this just another way the earth lets us know just how small and selfish we are?"
Addressing this query only, in some ways you're right. I've read that climate change isn't a direct causality, but it's a contributor. It changes environmental habitats, allowing for non native and/or other animals (or insects) to expand into previously less than hospitable areas.
(Ticks are one; apparently they're spreading more into Michigan based on what I've read, and it's due to climate change.)
I'd have to check my files to find the specific article, but it addressed a question I had about the role of climate change.
Someone on another forum raised another interesting issue, comparing a map of human heat concentration through trackers in clothing or shoes to the heaviest outbreaks of Covid 19. It covers about a 2 year period, so it's not just limited to this pandemic, and the data may be skewed.
But with the exception of Wuhan, all the other heavy outbreaks were also areas of high heat generation, from humans.
The chart and data would imply that human activity such as hiking and running were areas that were also hit hard by the virus. I haven't yet heard anyone address heat as a factor, but people congregating in large numbers (such as beaches and parks) exposes a lot of people to contagion.
I think I also posted somewhere here that back in 2006 or 2007, 3 Asian scientists addressed the issues of the "wet markets", the zoonotic diseases, pandemics and the definite potential for another pandemic arising from these factors.
People all over could have been warned; I don't know how many countries or nations did take action, but a lot more could have been done. Yet it seems as though their warnings went for naught, for the most part.
I have been back and forth about posting on this thread...well here I go...
The governor of my state doesn't want to reopen up businesses yet and I don't blame her.
We as humans...as a country are at a crossroad. On one hand, if we open up businesses and start living our lives thousands if not ten of thousands will die and it won't be just the old or just the young, but all ages and on the other hand, if we stay in lockdown for to long then our economy will not just go down hill, but we could end up seeing another Depression. So what is the answer?
People claim that they are losing their Freedom, but Freedom comes with a price and we have to decide what price do we what to pay, more so, would it be worth it?
I do agree that this 'lockdown' or 'stay at home' order was a quick fix that wasn't planned out very well. I find myself asking, why didn't any government officials have an emergency plan if something should ever happen like this? We as the U.S know that there are countries that don't like us and moreover can be careless when it comes to handling diseases among other things. Yet, we had no plan. How can that be?
Yes, we all want to get back to our normal life. We want the Freedom to choose what we want to do, but what happens when one person's rights steps on another person's rights? In this case could kill someone!
I know there are people who don't think this is real or any more dangerous as the flu and/or they think that "it won't happen to them," but it will and can! They have no respect for authorities and they don't respect their fellow humans or themselves! They want their right to choose, but what if they choose wrong and the price they pay is killing themselves or worst, they kill one of their family members, then what?
Now I am not saying that all people will make the wrong decision, but if you are out protesting or hanging out in stores then just maybe you are not smart enough to make the right decision! Moreover, if we can not or will not protect ourselves then the government has to step in and protect us. And really, if our government officials didn't do anything and let us just make our own decisions then they would get backlash for not doing anything! They could not win!!
I think it is to soon to open up the economy. Yes, there are things I miss, however, I would rather go through one semi long lockdown now vs going through another lockdown and more deaths. If we don't learn from this then we will repeat it!!!
I can't help but wonder through all this...Is this just another way the earth lets us know just how small and selfish we are? I wonder!!
If my governor decides to reopen the economy I won't be going back to my normal life anytime soon! I'll sit back and wait!!
I’m in New York. Governor Cuomo wants to start opening up May 15th, but I think that’s too soon. I can forget about any assisted living or nursing homes for my mother right now in New York. My mother is still in her own home. My son visits her twice a week and I have been going over twice a week.
Here in TN the governor tried to leave as much open as possible in his first order. Mainly just asked people to follow the distancing guidelines and refrain from unnecessary travel; only closed bars and venues with gatherings of more than 50 (left dining rooms open as long as they used distancing and no more than 50 people total). The following weekend (3 days later), people were having cookouts and parties of 20-40 people in the park pavilions and picnic areas. So governor revises order, closes all non-essential businesses and parks, and reduces gatherings to no more than 10 people. The economic impact could have been less if more people were willing to comply with the initial guidelines. We could safely open more things back up sooner _if_ everyone was willing to practice the common sense stuff too; too bad there's a 10-20% that won't be.
Whether you like Trump or not, please consider his statements about re-opening our economy being the toughest decisions he will ever make. No matter what decisions he makes, there will be profound public criticism. Whatever decision he makes, there will be deaths; to covid or to suicide or untreated medical conditions as people delay "elective" procedures and avoid medical centers. Please pray for our President to make the best possible decisions for our people. Please pray for our governors to be led by what's good for their people and not personal power and agendas or ego trips. Most of them will be doing their best in the most difficult circumstances of their lives. Only a few will continue gaming the political system as usual and maybe that's just a form of denial for people who cannot face the difficult choices.
We all have our own personal opinions about that. My own Gov is Gavin Newsom, and he was my Mayor long before this. I admire him greatly. I in fact admire all the Govs and believe they are faced with dreadfully difficult choices. I believe we need massive testing, and that can only come from a federal response in most places. California is lucky to have had stellar leadership in the past, and being somewhat a "nation state" as our Gov calls it, has many medical institutions, and can likely get our own testing up; I think few other states have saved the slush fund we have to address some of this. But these are hard times. No one will be perfect; everyone is trying their very best. Whatever happens going forward with a federal response, a state response, and city response, those of us of an age are going to have to know we are in a very vulnerable place, and until a vaccine is available, or we develop herd immunity, or the virus (they are unpredictable) goes away, we are in harm's way, as are those we love and care for. Wishing us all the best going forward. Not easy times, and not going to have a perfect response or a perfect outcome for all.
Just my opinion, but I think the shutdowns are part necessary and rationalized, but also part of governors not knowing what else to do. Despite experiencing epidemics before, there were inadequate measures in place to deal with something of this magnitude. That's a significant failure.
That includes not only supplies, but assessment of options. And it especially focuses on LACK of adequate supplies and testing options, all the way from the front line medical and first responders down to the population throughout the nation.
People like those who protested in Michigan on Wed. flaunt authority and get away with it. They should be ticketed and fined. So, do the shutdowns really accomplish compliance with everyone? No.
Shutdowns are a blanket response to individual noncompliance, and that includes governors who, for example, want to keep beaches open as well as individuals who don't respect authority, even as it creeps toward martial law.
Although I was initially surprised, I now think that Detroit PD is taking the right approach: ticketing and fining those who are in noncompliance.
These are stats posted yesterday, from the Detroit PD. Inference is that these sweeps were done after the "no gardening, no painting" order.
1. checked over 10,000 locations 2. given 1,614 warnings 3. issued 736 citations 4. shut down more than 24 parties 5. closed 27 businesses
24 parties? Who in their right mind would party in this environment? THESE are the people who need to filtered out and targeted. But lacking the time and staff to do this, blanket orders are issued. We who are compliant suffer b/c of those who aren't.
I live in NJ one of the hardest hit States. Most of our cases are from the Counties close to NYC but the virus is trickling down. Our Govenor and 2 other surrounding States do not agree with the President. North Jersey is leveling off but they still have cases. Nothing showing that the virus is dying off.
Here in the South, my County has 107cs, so far, with 4 deaths and thats since Mar 27th. They keep saying we will see a surge. Testing is being done now, so our numbers will rise. Only those with symptoms wil, be tested. Though. We r closed down till middle of May.
People are already not complying. Were I live is the last exit from 295 and the NJ turnpike. We have seen cars stopping in our gas stations and convenience stores from NY state. Why are these people not being kept out of NJ? Why do they need to travel?
The original models have been demonstrated to be incorrect. What's more, economies have been devastated, many businesses have already collapsed, and states can't even handle the unemployment benefits. If you are in a high-risk demographic...stay home. We cannot protect a few people (98% of all people who get this recover) to destroy the lives of millions. So many people have no jobs. I distribute food for a food bank and it's heart-breaking so many people have no money to feed themselves. Elective surgeries, screenings for diseases for cancer (mammograms, for example), dental procedures all put on hold--and many of these save lives. The current statistics say that the risk of coronovirus is the same as driving 9 miles in your car. How can we justify staying closed? My mother is seriously ill and in a senior home, and I fully support the quarantines that are placed on where she lives. But if I didn't support it, I would remove her to my own home. But for the rest of the country, allow people to go back to their normal lives.
I want to come back and clarify that when I said we need a plan to open up soon I wasn't thinking of the next few days or even the next couple of weeks, that would be insane.
I say no. People (not implying posters in this thread) want what will benefit their situation. Younger folks want to open everything up again, because they know they are at lower risk. And remember that originally this pandemic was sometimes referred to as "Boomer Doomer" and "Boomer Remover." Now that it's known that younger people ARE contracting the virus, sometimes with complications for someone who does not already have health issues, I don't see that so much anymore.
People with secure paychecks or pensions don't think things need to open up too soon. People who have lost their jobs (and haven't had their unemployment claims go through) or who are about to lose their businesses are desperate for things to open back up. (Don't get me going about the clusterf*#K of the Payroll Protection Plan loan program that has now run out of money, and its mismanagement...)
What it all comes down to is what is the acceptable balance between lives lost vs the economy. And it could be individual to a state or locality in the U.S. Lives will be lose when things reopen until there are criteria are met which are nowhere near being satisfied.
When I'm in Wal-Mart getting groceries I make a point to avoid other people as much as possible. I try to go down empty isles even if I have to wait for it to clear out. Then I see young people in there with babies or several children and they're not even wearing masks. I realize that they're not as likely to get it but they should have respect for the elderly.
As for the folks having their "family fun day" at Lowe's or HD.......keep your butts at home if you have no business there! I was reading a story earlier about a HD employee who died. His daughter and his fellow employees talked about how much he loved his job there. So we should all be respectful of the employees that are putting themselves at risk to serve us.
Maybe governors are power hungry and underestimate the intelligence of the people.
Proverbs 22:3 New Living Translation (NLT) A prudent person foresees danger and takes precautions. The simpleton goes blindly on and suffers the consequences.
My little state has 32k positives, but we have a lot of testing here. I am more than happy to stay in with those numbers as I also have COPD,but if I owned a business I suspect I would feel differently.
Barb Brooklyn, Not military. He’s part of a state wide rural health physicians group. In return for assistance with schooling, one commits to serving in rural health area for a certain amount of time. He likes rural health and opened his own practice in a rural area and stays affiliated with the group. But in the last 10 years it’s become a losing proposition.
Bridger, I take it that he is military? My beat thoughts to you both during this trying time. ((((Hugs)))))). I'm so glad we have docs who are able to come to NY!
My husband is a physician and was assigned to New Orleans. He turned in retirement papers to get to leave New Orleans. The state medical group he is affiliated with then loaned him to New York. He’s been NYC since last Friday. He is being threatened with losing his pension if he leaves NYC. Our own community has had zero cases of Covid. I have closed his office completely. He’s done with being assigned to disasters with no pay and done with accepting low reimbursements for Medicare and Medicaid patients. He is a part owner of local nursing home. They are shutting down Medicare rehab beds and long term Medicaid beds. It’s a losing proposition for he and his partners. Covid has brought to the front some of the problems with the healthcare system. There needs to be a better way.
People need to wear masks/gloves. Stay in and distance except when necessary. Use common sense. And common sense applies to the government and governors as well - get more testing.
Looks like the virus might be starting to heat up in rural areas. Some governors are smart enough to put regs in place before the explosions and learn the lessons of Italy, Spain and NYC. The results remain to be seen, of course.
Good luck all. NY appears to be starting to flatten the exponential level of infection.
Laboring, asymptomatic women in NYC are being tested at admission; at one reporting hospital, 14% are COVID positive. A friend at another hospital tells me their rate is 27%.
That's the rate of infection among folks with no symptoms. I'm not pressing anyone to open ANYTHING. We are still in very dangerous territory.
I think it may be May 15th here too. But I am staying home until I determine I feel okay about going out there. I frankly don't trust anyone to determine what the best is right now for me, so I am staying home. I go to the store every 2 weeks, and I wear a mask, balaclava, and I wash my hands, clothes, and shower when I come home. I wipe the groceries and my car handles down too. My mom is in a facility and thank God they are all fine.
GingerMay, I thought at first that I might be succumbing to female cattiness when I saw Whitmer panning for the camera, hair in place, perfectly made up, and grinning like the Cheshire Cat. My thought was that she wasn't expressing sincere concern for us Michiganders, but was auditioning, perhaps for VP since Biden already expressed an interest in her as a running mate.
I was angry when she banned HD, Lowes and others from selling garden supplies, and when she also banned use of lawn mowing services. The town in which I live is often hostile to residents. When I asked them how they would handle overgrown lawns, I was advised that mandates that lawns be kept below 7" remain, and that if I hired a lawn care service, I would be fined!
So I get fined if I can't mow the damn lawn, and fined if I hire someone. That's a disgusting position for any resident to be in.
But I was livid this morning when I read that she made an excuse for pesticide companies...of all things - toxic waste sprayers! To me that was comparable to allowing those nosy and pesky religious canvassers the right to canvas homeowners while we can't even cross the street to visit neighbors.
Now she's totally on my bad candidate list; I will never vote for her again, and I hope the Dem Party finds a good candidate to replace her.
How do I feel about my Gov's plans? In a word, disgusted. I live in Michigan too. I noticed the Gov appears on television with perfectly dyed hair while mine is going gray because I am not going to the stylist. This governor also has perfectly polished nails, bright white teeth, and what looks suspiciously like botox in her forehead because it is so flat. In my life, I am going gray haired, had my dentist cancel my teeth cleaning appointment, and I used to get botox but am letting my wrinkles now show proudly. This governor clearly is not adhering to her own mandates she imposed on the citizens. It is so hard to even look at her. The demonstration in the state capitol was meant to get this Gov's attention to change oppressive policies. Her only public response was to berate the citizens for not adhering to wearing gloves and keeping distance. More hatred and contempt swirling around and more lack of leadership.
Re Michigan's Governor: I think she's going to learn her lesson the hard way. The protest on Wednesday made national headlines and news. If she was attempting to bring the State to compliance and lessen the potential of CV expansion, she went about it the wrong way.
Biden isn't going to want someone who's drawn that kind of negative response. Notwithstanding her denials, she is a political animal. But I can't see any way she'd be a candidate for VP after this week.
It also needs to be said though that the protest wasn't limited to her mandates. Many of the people, especially the ones clowning around, with a bullhorn, standing on a car or other activities, are to me the kind of people who respond to instructions by others in their political party to go out and protest.
This was a political action, in part for the upcoming election, more than protest against a stay at home mandate. -------------------------------------
Igloo,
you raise good points as well. I think HD and Lowe's were "go to" places for weekends, with the guys shopping for tools and supplies, and the family tagging along to make it more of a social occasion. I don't recall seeing many people resting or playing with their phones, but it wouldn't surprise me. And those people certainly do NOT need to be in public during a pandemic.
What I objected to are the expansive restrictions, which actually became ludicrous this morning when she issued an extension for pesticide applications, stating that they help provide "safe food" for Michiganders. Ha! She obviously knows nothing about the superiority of organic gardening.
As soon as I read that, I suspected that either the chemical, or specifically the pesticide industry, was behind this.
Now we need the lawn mowing industry to put pressure on her as well. --------------------------------
TNTechie,
good points made on the shopping issues. What I'm suspecting happened is that either the Michigan agricultural or pesticide industry lobbied or put pressure on the governor. The limitations she enacted are just too specific to have been considered as part of the social distancing plans.
However, I think she's done herself more harm than good. And she'll pay for it either when Biden chooses someone else as a running mate or when she runs for re-election. ----------------------------------
CWillie
Well said. It isn't easy to create a balance, but it has to be done, by all.
We're reading of some horror tales in nursing homes, just abject neglect, but I also understand that (a) nursing homes don't have access to the personnel or supplies that hospitals have, even though they're also in short supply, and (b) hospitals are also highly publicized since they're the ones on which so much relies.
What I'm learning and reading of now are that employees are being furloughed, as cases decline, but also that workers are burned out, hospitals are taking stands more like the corporate employers that some of them are, and some hospital employees are protesting, publicly.
-----------------------------------
MidKid,
Your description sounds like what existed here, before Whitmer went off on an isolationist spree. It leaves discretion to the public, which is something that's compromised with mandatory expansive and punishing edicts. ----------------------------------
FloridaDD,
Good, basic guidelines. Let's KISS ( keep it simple stupid), if the politicians can understand this. ----------------------------------
IsthisReallyReal,
So I'm not the only who's observed Whitmer's performances for cameras. Gov. Cuomo and others are somber, as befits updates that are provided. Grinning and smiling at the camera like one smiles at babies does not convey sincerity or concern. ---------------------------------- KatieKate,
Important issue: widespread testing. I won't even get into the political issues of that! But it's GOT to be enabled, and to be done.
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Here in the Commonwealth we are in lock down mode until June 10th. All schools closed last month for the rest of the semester [the Governor is a children's physician so he understands how kids are walking petri dishes]. My boss closed our office the middle of March. The hardware stores are opened and the landscapers are having a field day [no pun intended].
Some grocery stores are limiting the number of people going into the store. Whole Foods now has only one entrance and one exist so the Staff can keep track. Some shoppers had masks, others [mainly men] did not.
I couldn't find masks at the drug stores, which was odd, and this was mid-January. So something was brewing out there. Why weren't we told back then?
Sig other kept forgetting about the 6 foot rule. I grumbled at him but it fell on usual deaf ears. Then one day he was in another grocery store and got too close to a older woman shopper who was in a wheelchair.... she read him the riot act. I don't think he will forget now :) Yes, he had on his mask.
For groceries, my big orders I use the home delivery service. Instead of weekly, it is now every two weeks because of so many people using this service it very hard to reserve a time slot. I feel like I won the lottery if I get 60% of what I had ordered :)
One life lost is to many in my opinion!
"I know there are people who don't think this is real or any more dangerous as the flu and/or they think that "it won't happen to them," but it will and can! They have no respect for authorities and they don't respect their fellow humans or themselves!"
I think it is even worse than that, they think that sickening everyone and killing 2% is reasonable price to pay and preferable to having their lives temporarily disrupted. I'm not sure what their plan would be for healthcare sectors overwhelmed by illness - perhaps we shouldn't bother treating the gravely ill?
We have test sites, many of the PCP’s have gone Telemed, and folks are still able to see *some* specialists though most are NOT open for business. and the system, while overloaded, appears to be functioning under the circumstances.
I think the members of the President’s Task Force will evaluate the data coming in daily and go from there. Dr Fauci & Dr Birx are the best imo and I can’t see any plan to reopen America going forward without the approval of the medical community. They too are learning something new about the virus.
I myself have an interest in immunology and infectious disease & am wondering about Antibody testing. Usually people develop Ab against a disease (virus) but in Covid 19 it doesn’t appear to be that way, or the antibodies disappear.
I think May 15 is a good date. We’ll have two months of self quarantine. Those exposed will have had their 14 day confinement. We have to get back to business and recoup our economic losses.
If not and the ID experts agree, we’ll see!
"I can't help but wonder through all this...Is this just another way the earth lets us know just how small and selfish we are?"
Addressing this query only, in some ways you're right. I've read that climate change isn't a direct causality, but it's a contributor. It changes environmental habitats, allowing for non native and/or other animals (or insects) to expand into previously less than hospitable areas.
(Ticks are one; apparently they're spreading more into Michigan based on what I've read, and it's due to climate change.)
I'd have to check my files to find the specific article, but it addressed a question I had about the role of climate change.
Someone on another forum raised another interesting issue, comparing a map of human heat concentration through trackers in clothing or shoes to the heaviest outbreaks of Covid 19. It covers about a 2 year period, so it's not just limited to this pandemic, and the data may be skewed.
But with the exception of Wuhan, all the other heavy outbreaks were also areas of high heat generation, from humans.
The chart and data would imply that human activity such as hiking and running were areas that were also hit hard by the virus. I haven't yet heard anyone address heat as a factor, but people congregating in large numbers (such as beaches and parks) exposes a lot of people to contagion.
I think I also posted somewhere here that back in 2006 or 2007, 3 Asian scientists addressed the issues of the "wet markets", the zoonotic diseases, pandemics and the definite potential for another pandemic arising from these factors.
People all over could have been warned; I don't know how many countries or nations did take action, but a lot more could have been done. Yet it seems as though their warnings went for naught, for the most part.
The governor of my state doesn't want to reopen up businesses yet and I don't blame her.
We as humans...as a country are at a crossroad. On one hand, if we open up businesses and start living our lives thousands if not ten of thousands will die and it won't be just the old or just the young, but all ages and on the other hand, if we stay in lockdown for to long then our economy will not just go down hill, but we could end up seeing another Depression. So what is the answer?
People claim that they are losing their Freedom, but Freedom comes with a price and we have to decide what price do we what to pay, more so, would it be worth it?
I do agree that this 'lockdown' or 'stay at home' order was a quick fix that wasn't planned out very well. I find myself asking, why didn't any government officials have an emergency plan if something should ever happen like this? We as the U.S know that there are countries that don't like us and moreover can be careless when it comes to handling diseases among other things. Yet, we had no plan. How can that be?
Yes, we all want to get back to our normal life. We want the Freedom to choose what we want to do, but what happens when one person's rights steps on another person's rights? In this case could kill someone!
I know there are people who don't think this is real or any more dangerous as the flu and/or they think that "it won't happen to them," but it will and can! They have no respect for authorities and they don't respect their fellow humans or themselves! They want their right to choose, but what if they choose wrong and the price they pay is killing themselves or worst, they kill one of their family members, then what?
Now I am not saying that all people will make the wrong decision, but if you are out protesting or hanging out in stores then just maybe you are not smart enough to make the right decision! Moreover, if we can not or will not protect ourselves then the government has to step in and protect us. And really, if our government officials didn't do anything and let us just make our own decisions then they would get backlash for not doing anything! They could not win!!
I think it is to soon to open up the economy. Yes, there are things I miss, however, I would rather go through one semi long lockdown now vs going through another lockdown and more deaths. If we don't learn from this then we will repeat it!!!
I can't help but wonder through all this...Is this just another way the earth lets us know just how small and selfish we are? I wonder!!
If my governor decides to reopen the economy I won't be going back to my normal life anytime soon! I'll sit back and wait!!
Just my 2 cents!!!
Whether you like Trump or not, please consider his statements about re-opening our economy being the toughest decisions he will ever make. No matter what decisions he makes, there will be profound public criticism. Whatever decision he makes, there will be deaths; to covid or to suicide or untreated medical conditions as people delay "elective" procedures and avoid medical centers. Please pray for our President to make the best possible decisions for our people. Please pray for our governors to be led by what's good for their people and not personal power and agendas or ego trips. Most of them will be doing their best in the most difficult circumstances of their lives. Only a few will continue gaming the political system as usual and maybe that's just a form of denial for people who cannot face the difficult choices.
That includes not only supplies, but assessment of options. And it especially focuses on LACK of adequate supplies and testing options, all the way from the front line medical and first responders down to the population throughout the nation.
People like those who protested in Michigan on Wed. flaunt authority and get away with it. They should be ticketed and fined. So, do the shutdowns really accomplish compliance with everyone? No.
Shutdowns are a blanket response to individual noncompliance, and that includes governors who, for example, want to keep beaches open as well as individuals who don't respect authority, even as it creeps toward martial law.
Although I was initially surprised, I now think that Detroit PD is taking the right approach: ticketing and fining those who are in noncompliance.
These are stats posted yesterday, from the Detroit PD. Inference is that these sweeps were done after the "no gardening, no painting" order.
1. checked over 10,000 locations
2. given 1,614 warnings
3. issued 736 citations
4. shut down more than 24 parties
5. closed 27 businesses
24 parties? Who in their right mind would party in this environment? THESE are the people who need to filtered out and targeted. But lacking the time and staff to do this, blanket orders are issued. We who are compliant suffer b/c of those who aren't.
Here in the South, my County has 107cs, so far, with 4 deaths and thats since Mar 27th. They keep saying we will see a surge. Testing is being done now, so our numbers will rise. Only those with symptoms wil, be tested. Though. We r closed down till middle of May.
People are already not complying. Were I live is the last exit from 295 and the NJ turnpike. We have seen cars stopping in our gas stations and convenience stores from NY state. Why are these people not being kept out of NJ? Why do they need to travel?
People with secure paychecks or pensions don't think things need to open up too soon. People who have lost their jobs (and haven't had their unemployment claims go through) or who are about to lose their businesses are desperate for things to open back up. (Don't get me going about the clusterf*#K of the Payroll Protection Plan loan program that has now run out of money, and its mismanagement...)
What it all comes down to is what is the acceptable balance between lives lost vs the economy. And it could be individual to a state or locality in the U.S. Lives will be lose when things reopen until there are criteria are met which are nowhere near being satisfied.
When I'm in Wal-Mart getting groceries I make a point to avoid other people as much as possible. I try to go down empty isles even if I have to wait for it to clear out. Then I see young people in there with babies or several children and they're not even wearing masks. I realize that they're not as likely to get it but they should have respect for the elderly.
As for the folks having their "family fun day" at Lowe's or HD.......keep your butts at home if you have no business there! I was reading a story earlier about a HD employee who died. His daughter and his fellow employees talked about how much he loved his job there. So we should all be respectful of the employees that are putting themselves at risk to serve us.
Proverbs 22:3 New Living Translation (NLT)
A prudent person foresees danger and takes precautions.
The simpleton goes blindly on and suffers the consequences.
I am more than happy to stay in with those numbers as I also have COPD,but if I owned a business I suspect I would feel differently.
Medicine isn’t what it used to be. We discouraged both of our sons to go into another profession.
(((Hugs)))))
People need to wear masks/gloves. Stay in and distance except when necessary. Use common sense. And common sense applies to the government and governors as well - get more testing.
Good luck all. NY appears to be starting to flatten the exponential level of infection.
Laboring, asymptomatic women in NYC are being tested at admission; at one reporting hospital, 14% are COVID positive. A friend at another hospital tells me their rate is 27%.
That's the rate of infection among folks with no symptoms. I'm not pressing anyone to open ANYTHING. We are still in very dangerous territory.
I was angry when she banned HD, Lowes and others from selling garden supplies, and when she also banned use of lawn mowing services. The town in which I live is often hostile to residents. When I asked them how they would handle overgrown lawns, I was advised that mandates that lawns be kept below 7" remain, and that if I hired a lawn care service, I would be fined!
So I get fined if I can't mow the damn lawn, and fined if I hire someone. That's a disgusting position for any resident to be in.
But I was livid this morning when I read that she made an excuse for pesticide companies...of all things - toxic waste sprayers! To me that was comparable to allowing those nosy and pesky religious canvassers the right to canvas homeowners while we can't even cross the street to visit neighbors.
Now she's totally on my bad candidate list; I will never vote for her again, and I hope the Dem Party finds a good candidate to replace her.
The demonstration in the state capitol was meant to get this Gov's attention to change oppressive policies. Her only public response was to berate the citizens for not adhering to wearing gloves and keeping distance. More hatred and contempt swirling around and more lack of leadership.
Re Michigan's Governor: I think she's going to learn her lesson the hard way. The protest on Wednesday made national headlines and news. If she was attempting to bring the State to compliance and lessen the potential of CV expansion, she went about it the wrong way.
Biden isn't going to want someone who's drawn that kind of negative response. Notwithstanding her denials, she is a political animal. But I can't see any way she'd be a candidate for VP after this week.
It also needs to be said though that the protest wasn't limited to her mandates. Many of the people, especially the ones clowning around, with a bullhorn, standing on a car or other activities, are to me the kind of people who respond to instructions by others in their political party to go out and protest.
This was a political action, in part for the upcoming election, more than protest against a stay at home mandate.
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Igloo,
you raise good points as well. I think HD and Lowe's were "go to" places for weekends, with the guys shopping for tools and supplies, and the family tagging along to make it more of a social occasion. I don't recall seeing many people resting or playing with their phones, but it wouldn't surprise me. And those people certainly do NOT need to be in public during a pandemic.
What I objected to are the expansive restrictions, which actually became ludicrous this morning when she issued an extension for pesticide applications, stating that they help provide "safe food" for Michiganders. Ha! She obviously knows nothing about the superiority of organic gardening.
As soon as I read that, I suspected that either the chemical, or specifically the pesticide industry, was behind this.
Now we need the lawn mowing industry to put pressure on her as well.
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TNTechie,
good points made on the shopping issues. What I'm suspecting happened is that either the Michigan agricultural or pesticide industry lobbied or put pressure on the governor. The limitations she enacted are just too specific to have been considered as part of the social distancing plans.
However, I think she's done herself more harm than good. And she'll pay for it either when Biden chooses someone else as a running mate or when she runs for re-election.
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CWillie
Well said. It isn't easy to create a balance, but it has to be done, by all.
We're reading of some horror tales in nursing homes, just abject neglect, but I also understand that (a) nursing homes don't have access to the personnel or supplies that hospitals have, even though they're also in short supply, and (b) hospitals are also highly publicized since they're the ones on which so much relies.
What I'm learning and reading of now are that employees are being furloughed, as cases decline, but also that workers are burned out, hospitals are taking stands more like the corporate employers that some of them are, and some hospital employees are protesting, publicly.
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MidKid,
Your description sounds like what existed here, before Whitmer went off on an isolationist spree. It leaves discretion to the public, which is something that's compromised with mandatory expansive and punishing edicts.
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FloridaDD,
Good, basic guidelines. Let's KISS ( keep it simple stupid), if the politicians can understand this.
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IsthisReallyReal,
So I'm not the only who's observed Whitmer's performances for cameras. Gov. Cuomo and others are somber, as befits updates that are provided. Grinning and smiling at the camera like one smiles at babies does not convey sincerity or concern.
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KatieKate,
Important issue: widespread testing. I won't even get into the political issues of that! But it's GOT to be enabled, and to be done.